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How Would Italy Do With a 4-1-2-1-2?

November 24th, 2008 | By: Julian | 26 Comments »

Let’s face it- we don’t play again till after the new year and there’s next to no national team news to blog about. So I’ll be doing editorials and features on the players and the team to keep the blog going until game time. This particular post is the first in a series that was suggested by John Silver. Basically, it takes a look at different formations and guesses how our team would do in various ones.

Background info: The 4-1-2-1-2 is a relatively offensive formation. If it sounds complicated, it’s basically a 4-4-2 with a diamond midfield. It’s probably my personal favorite because of the 1 position- it demands a trequartista/fantista to work, which means there’s usually some dazzling footy going on in it. It also requires a lot of running from the fullbacks to give the midfield some width.

Oh, and I chose this formation cause it’s the one I use in FIFA 09.

But do the Azzurri have the players to do it? Let’s break it down:

Disclaimer: I stole this shamelessly from Wiki.

Goalie: every formation requires a goalie so…yes

The 4 part (aka defenders): This requires 4 defenders, which Italy has played with since practically forever. We all know that we’re going through a defender crisis but I can’t imagine us playing with any number of defenders besides 4. So far, so good.

The 1-2-1 midfield: This is the diamond part of the formation. The first guy should be a very strong defensive midfielder who can shield the back four and also direct play. DDR sounds like a perfect fit here. Arguably, Pirlo could also slot in there but he’s not really known for his defensive abilities. DDR is a much better all around player and could anchor the midfield. The 2 should be two guys who can really push the attack forward and direct play- my vote goes to Camo and Pirlo. I don’t know how well they’d work side by side, but there’s some potential.

Finally, the top of the diamond might be the most important player. This is where Cassano would be playing if I was Lippi. It’s the guy who has to connect the midfield and the forwards, and he’s got to be fast and creative. Cassano was born to play this role.

The 2 strikers: We need 2 strikers who can play well side by side. Lippi so far has been favoring formations where were have 3 guys up front, and there’s been mixed results. In my humble estimation, the two guys need to complement each other- one needs to be a prima punta of the highest order, capable of scoring goals from anywhere. The other needs to be more creative and better at holding up the ball. I’d be willing to try out Gila and Rossi here. Gila’s getting back to being a natural goalscorer- and anyone who saw the Fiorentina game this weekend knows he can poach goals. Rossi showed potential last game, so he would slot in easily. The only thing is that we’d need a lot of help from the fullbacks, but since Grosso loves running and Zambro is rather offensive, crosses and the like should come very easily.

So, what would this look like in summary?

Buffon

Zambro-GC-Canna-Grosso

DDR

Camo-Pirlo

Cassano

Gila-Rossi

The formation isn’t perfect. We would probably need a Gattuso-esque guy besides DDR to patrol the midfield, so maybe he could slot in for Camo. But what do you guys think? Could this work? Would it with other players? Does this system fit the Azzurri?

It works for me when I play FIFA with this guy’s team. But will it work in reality?

Tags: Editorials, Group E, How Would Italy Do With..., Italy

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Comments

Displaying the most recent 25 comments from a total of 26 comments.

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By mike de robbio | November 24th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

i think it looks like a good formation Julian, I favour the diamond when i play PES also!! De Rossi would be perfect as the playmaker at the back. He’s solid and he can push forward when he needs to. Totally agree that Cassano should be the AMF also, a role that Giovinco could fill one day too hopefully. Someone who can create passes and score, ideal. Perhaps the someone like Abate will be able to fill those side midfield positions at some point. I liked what i saw of him at the olympics. He’s pacy and passionate

Posted from Australia

By Rob(ben :D) | November 24th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

How about Rosina? I’m not sure what position the guy plays but he was amazing against Milan last sunday. Maybe he can slot in for DDR?

By Caroe | November 24th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

The formation is basicly another 4-3-3 but with two strikers instead of one. And while I hate Lippi’s/Donadoni’s 4-3-3 formations I absolutely love this one! Especially because Italy don’t have many great wingers.

I wouldn’t put Camo in there, we need someone that can play some D there. It could be Gattuso or even Aquilani when he’s fit.

This is the formation Roma has used in the last four games. And it has visibly improved our team.

Rob(ben): No one can slot in for DDR and especially not Rosina who would take Cassano’s slot.

Posted from Denmark

By gianfranco | November 24th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

Julian, I taught the U14 team I coach this formation and it was seamless, we won the Northeast region in CT and went to the semis of the state cup to lose on PK’s so the system works, problem is personnel, personnel, personnel…

Posted from United States

By Caroe | November 24th, 2008 at 6:57 pm

KJ: Who would you slot in for Gila? I know he doeesn’t score much on NT but neither has Toni lately. My only suggestion would be Aquafresca?

Posted from Denmark

By Vincent | November 24th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

I like the formation as well, with it being worked tightly together so as to cut off the space for the opponent.

I would use Pirlo in the slot ahead of the D with Gattuso/Aquilani and DDR as the two basic mids with Cassano as the 3/4

The only problem I see is that Zambro and Grosso are getting a bit up there and might not make this work in 2010.

By marco | November 24th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

I would have buffon in goal, zambrotta right back, cannavaro and chiellini in the centre, grosso left back, DDR at right mid because he has a high work rate, he can tuck in when he needs to, he can cross and shoot from distance, pirlo at def mid, he maynot be the best at protecting the back 4 but he can do it and he has excellent vision, as we all know. rosina would be left mid. he too has a high work rate and he’s left footed and he is creative. aquilani would be the attacking mid, he has the qualities you need for an attacking mid, and he is better at defense than cassano, don’t forget attacking mids have to get back also. up front would be cassano and…toni for now. Rossi could fill in for cassano, aquilani or rosina. ddr could fill in for pirlo and aquilani could be right mid. or you could put aquilani at left mid, cassano at attacking mid and del piero up top

By Albo | November 24th, 2008 at 9:55 pm

I know that formation as 4-4-2 Diamond.
It’s Argentina’s favourite.

Posted from United States

By vin | November 24th, 2008 at 11:12 pm

I’m fine with it, as long as DDR is in that defensive mid position, with Gattuso as a sub.

Posted from United States

By Marco Pantanella | November 24th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

Pirlo can’t play LM. He doesn’t have the mobility, and his passing talent would be wasted. His best role is in the middle, so in other words it’s either DDR or Pirlo at the DM position.

Camoranesi works fine at RM, but then the question remains: who would work best as LM? And that’s where the problems start, because the most ideal person here would either be Simone Perrotta (helluva a worker, but not exactly Mr. “exquisite boot”) or Gennaro Gattuso (same, and he’s actually more used to playing on the right).

As for having a trequartista, I’m not convinced. The most ideal person fit for this role plays for Roma, and has called it quits with the Azzurri. Cassano, aside from the fact he may have to “pull a Del Piero” for Lippi (like ADP did with Donadoni, i.e. score 20+ goals in order to even begin being taken into consideration), is more of a side forward type. I don’t see him playing central dietro le punte.

All valid points I think but just to reiterate, the primary reason why I don’t like the diamond formation is because one out of Pirlo and DDR has to sit out. Based on the two players’ recent performances, Italy really can’t afford to have that.

By mike de robbio | November 25th, 2008 at 12:14 am

Fair point Marco. what would be your ideal formation then? I like your thinking

Posted from Australia

By asem | November 25th, 2008 at 12:26 am

Julian that’s so weird.
I use that formation in FIFA too ahah.
(FastLikeRamadan – get at me)

Anyways, I like the formation.
For the dearth of wingers that we have, it’s good.
Like others have alluded to, the DDR-Pirlo factor rears its ugly head once again.

Posted from United States

By John Silver | November 25th, 2008 at 8:36 am

I’m with Caroe in that I’d keep Camo out. Our midfield needs a young average age to keep the pace of an intense tournament like the world cup. Personally I’d slot in either Aquilani or Montolivo, they’re both versatile players with lots of pace who can attack and defend.

I’d like to point out that this is the formation Lippi was planning on using before Totti’s injury called for more compact measures. His own solution was to put Pirlo in the centre flanked by two bulldogs – De Rossi and Gattuso. The former’s suspension was of course part of what led to the change in formation.

I don’t think it’s true that Pirlo and De Rossi can’t work together, among other things because Pirlo could slot up to the position of trequartista (unusual, yes, but not wholly inconceivable – remember that the guy used to play as a forward). Alternatively, DDR is versatile enough to play as LM. Anyway, if the choice were forced on me, I’d drop Pirlo between the two, at least until he shows a marked return to 2006 form. It’s a difficult decision, but it takes brave choices at time to go ahead. The mid would then look like this:

– De Rossi –
Aquilani — Montolivo
– Cassano –

All hugely talented and all in the best possible age to play football. I’d like that. If Montolivo keeps underperforming for the Azzurri or Aquilani is out of form, drop either for Gattuso (or do it anyway if a stronger defense is needed). If we need more offensive weight, drop either for Camoranesi or, potentially, Rosina.

The treq is Cassano’s undisputed spot, though Aquilani can fill in for it if we need greater defensive presence. Plenty of options up ahead for prima and seconda punta.

Posted from Germany

By alessio | November 25th, 2008 at 8:40 am

Keep Camo out if you want to play a 4-3-1-2, sure. If we’re playing a 4-4-2, I don’t see why you wouldn’t play him. I’m sick of him playing at the top of a bastardized 4-3-3 though.

Posted from United States

By asem | November 25th, 2008 at 9:28 am

I’m all for:

- – - – - – - BUFFON – - – - – - – -
-ZAMBRO – G.C. – - LEGRO – FABIO G.-
- – - – - – - -DDR- – - – - – - – - -
- – - – -CAMO- – - -MONTO- – - – - -
- – - – - – - -AQUI- – - – - – - – - -
- – - – - -ROSSI- – - – - – - – - – -
- – - – - – - – - GILA – - – - – - – -

I was debating who would be CB other than Chiellini and I’m still lost. Canna is not lookin’ good lately, after that Inter game, neither is Legro really … Idk. Bring back Panooch anyone? Where’s MAD at to mump on my back no homo?

I like the midfield as I have it, and I don’t really know about Cassano playing the treq in this formation, as that player would have to drop back defensively. It works for Roma in their play b/c they have strong def. players throughout the midfield i.e. DDR, Brighi, Perrotta/Taddei, and even Baptista drops back to help a little. I don’t know how good Camo & Monto would be on defense. Only strong defender in MF would be DDR and Aqui is decent. I think if Cassano is called up, which he should be, He should slot into Rossi’s spot and Rossi moved up. Then comes the size and primapunta issue as Rossi isn’t the type to maximize and poach goals and isn’t the physical presence (haha I had to laugh at that) that Gila/Toni provide.

It’s a pickle.

Posted from United States

By asem | November 25th, 2008 at 9:29 am

*jump

Posted from United States

By Nonnino | November 25th, 2008 at 11:51 am

Come WC 2010 Gila & Toni will both be gone…They had had their chance and it’s time to move on. Yes Cassano adds creativity to the attack but his past behavior demonstrates he is a risk not worth taking. Here is how I see the Azzurri in a 4 1 2 1 2 in 2010:

BUFFON

SANTACROCE CHIELLINI
ZAMBROTTA GROSSO

PIRLO

DE ROSSI ROSINA

GIOVINCO

ROSSI BALOTELLI

SUBS: AMELIA, DE SANCTIS
SUBS: CANNAVARO, GAMBERINI, DE SILVESTRI
SUBS: GATTUSO, AQUILANI, MONTOLIVO
SUBS: ACUAQFRESCA, PEPE, IAQUINTA

By asem | November 25th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

…Seriously?
Balotelli?

I don’t think Lippi will pick him for WC no matter how talented he is.

Posted from United States

By Caroe | November 25th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

DDR MUST be played in the middle. Italy played with Pirlo on the left, DDR in the middle and Gattuso on the right against France in the Euros and especially DDR and Pirlo were fantastic.

Posted from Denmark

By marco | November 25th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

i like the 4-2-3-1 most of all, but the 4-4-2 can be great for us. i like the 4-2-3-1 because it’s a really attacking formation. it enables you to get a lot of attackers on the field and provides the defensive cover to not get caught on the counter. i know some teams play a 4-2-3-1 and play really defensive, but if you play it right it can be very attacking. besides, formations only help so much, what it comes down to is who we put on the field and how they are able to cover for each other.

By Ranjeet | November 26th, 2008 at 10:57 am

Maggio can replace Zambrotta(byy 2010 Zambro will be 32 or 33). He is amazing down the flanks,though not great defensively.

By Michel-Olivier | November 26th, 2008 at 11:43 am

lippi should try 4-1-3-1-1(control the midfield and put one big guy up front)
—————GK—————–
bonera-santacroce-chiellini-molinaro
———–gattuso—————–
—–pepe—-de rossi—pirlo—–
———-rossi—————
————acquafresca——

not a italy fan but i like league

Posted from United States

By ilcapitano | November 26th, 2008 at 2:51 pm

When I play with Italy in FIFA, I tend to use a 4-1-2-1-2. The problem is that I have to play Pirlo wide, which doesn’t allow him to play to his potential.
Zambrotta-Canna-GC-Grosso
De Rossi
Pirlo-Camoranesi
Cassano
Gilardino-Rossi
Thats my usual starting 10, but Camoranesi is sometimes switched with Montolivo or Aquliani. The hardest part is keeping myself from calling up Totti to play in Cassano’s spot =/

I also agree that the 4-2-3-1 could work. The problem once again, is lack of personnel. If Luca Toni didnt suck, he could play alone up front with Totti behind him and Camo/Cassano flanked outside. Sadly, thats all fantasy.

Posted from United States

By mele419 | November 28th, 2008 at 5:13 pm

Works great in Fifa, yeah I use it all the time. lol.
I think that it could work IRL too. But it probably won’t ever really happen…

Posted from United States

By ilcapitano | December 1st, 2008 at 6:18 pm

I tried 4-4-2 this weekend. It worked out GREAT. I feel like its the best formation. Pirlo and De Rossi control the middle, they complement each other great. I had Camoranesi and Aquliani on the outside, but you can sub in Perrotta or Montolivo there too. The Midfield worked GREAT, most of my goals were from those guys.
Up front I worked with Gilardino as a prima punta, and he was pretty good. Cassano was my other guy up front, he worked behind Gila most of the time. Sometimes Rossi started over Cassano, and that was kind of having 2 out and out strikers. (and I love using Iaquinta in the 80th or so down a goal, hes so clutch for me)

Posted from United States

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