5 Things we learned from the Dutch Debacle

Agreed Marco. Next game:
Buffon
Zambrotta Chelini Panucci Grosso
DDR Pirlo Aquliani
Cassano Toni Del Piero

THATS a lineup that scares the shit out of me (Besides the 2 CB, but hey, DDR equals 2 CBs himself.)

Merda-doni’s the new term going forward.

For now, chin up and let’s go fuck up Cristal Chivu and Co!

Warning!!!!! Italy is in deep trouble!

Really warning?? No shit.

But I still have hope, 2 wins are all we need.

Warning ; You should consider changing your name to Captain Obvious

What i’d like to see ; 4-2-3-1

Zambrotta-Panucci-Chiellini- Grosso

DDR- Pirlo

Camoranesi-Perrotta-Cassano
Toni

with ADP coming on mid to late game

Buffon
Zambrotta Chelini Panucci Grosso
DDR Pirlo Aquliani
Cassano Toni Del Piero

you got it right, this is who needs to start donadaoni lost us this game not starting de rossi??? what was he thinking

I’d be fine with either Marco or ilcapitano’s formation. But DDR will have to play more defensively than a box-to-box midfielder because we know Grosso and Zambrotta both just love to go forward.

Shame peformance, Del Piero on the bench. This isn’t what I expect from Itali. Thats for not putting Inzaghi in the squad. Donadoni fucked up your squad.

greetings from HANIBAL

Start:
Chiellini, De Rossi, Delpiero, Cassano…..leave materazzi on the bench with ambrosini & Di Natale….make necessary changes early in the game not at the end of the 2nd half….we may have a fighting chance to advance…..FORZA ITALIA

Well said Marco, I was never really sold on Di Natale, he plays good against weaker teams.

ok I think your being a little harsh on Di Natale…what the hell did Camo do? he passed when he should have run and shot…and he shot when he should have passed…he did absolutely nothing…

honestly i knew something was wrong when Gattuso started crossing and Ambrosini suddenly became an attacking midfielder…it looked like Pirlo was wondering wtf is going on? Because Pirlo was compensating by making some good tackles…and everyone knows its not exactly his strongest point and he shouldnt be the one forced to defend when Gat and Ambrosini decide to attack…Di Natale was pretty active and I think he would be more effective if Grosso starts on the left…

Also, I don’t want Panucci back there either..guys hes 35. We need pace back there. I would play Chiellini-Gamberini and De Rossi right infront of them. It lacks experience YES. But its more about how those three work together as a cohesive defensive unit to break up attacks….maybe Donashit should try this triangle in the central defense. They really need to practice and decide tactically HOW they intend on breaking up the attacks of the different squads during practice and practice that by unleashing all of the Italian attack on them. Cannavarro’s tactical input can also be essential. I really believe this triangle can work if they work together…DDR can be as effective in the transition from defense to attack as anyone..and this way poor Pirlo can focus on what he does best and that is to create plays…with Cassano playing instead of Camo…Pirlo also has the creativity, play-making ability and first touch of Cassano to help…Zambrotta and Grosso can play wide but they have to learn to retreat to defense if the attack fails…also on set pieces for god’s sake only one defender with good headers go up..we dont need all the defense up there leaving Di Natale and Pirlo in defense…

i can´t believe with so much talent at his hands don fuxked italy squad. Where is DDR, Aquilanin Del Piero, Cassano. Anyway we have to admit Netherlands played really well, but the score maybe to hard

warning is just some douche who likes to come bother us.
I agree in saying that ambro and rino should not play at the same time unless we have a lead and need to lock down the mid-field. I think DDR should have started over ambro, and I think Cassano should have been put in over Di Natale.

Mido, I was thinking the same thing about Ambrosini and Gattuso. The team was all over the place.

Donadoni: non mollare e metti i “CAMPIONI DENTRO”!!!!!
chiellini-del piero- de rossi- cassano subito TITOLARIIIII!!!!!!
anche un bambino di 10 anni avrebbe indovinato la rosa esatta….
adesso pedala!!!!!!!

HUP HOLLAND!

Italy has a good squad and should still put up a big fight. However, teh dutch showed great class and skill. AS much as I hate to see Italy lose it is sometimes good to see a team play so beautiful and be victorious.

Congrats to holland and hopefully we will see you in the semi’s!

The Panucci debacle is karmic payback for all the bullshit cheat tactics you pulled in 2006 (re: Australia penalty at 93″, etc).If it isn’t a gift-wrapped penalty, Italy can’t score.

I hope the Italian fans learned some humiliation – it isn’t every day that the Azzuri can’t get the ref to award a penalty for bullshit diving and get stuffed six ways from Sunday by a real team.

There is only one party to blame for this humiliation: The Italian Federation. What the fuck were they thinking when they appointed Mr. Donadoni?

Who were the options at that time, anyone remember?

After Euro 08 is over, Lippi should be brought back and this time he should be appointed coach FOREVER!!! I want to see Lippi smoke cigars and coach Italy until he’ 80!!!

Classic Italian – when you win, you’re the best. When you lose, the other side played too defensively. When you get slaughtered, the coach is to blame. Anything else? Don’t stop now, between the 3-0 thrashing and the bullshit excuses, you’re on a roll….

Omar — Albertini was behind the appointment of his buddy Donadoni!!

The problem with this team is this… TOO OLD! Why would he pick such an old team is beyond me. Delpiero, Di Natale, Panucci are not the answers we need.

We need the young guys of serie a in this team. Instead of scratching Montolivo and keeping Ambrosini, Donadoni should be fired, and so should the turds who initially hired him. What a joke we are looking like on the world stage. I don’t even know what to think anymore when it comes to this self destructive team. People should have caught on earlier when Italy struggled for a 2-1 win over Scotland, I mean come on.

Lippi start dusting off the clip board cause your on in two.

“Classic Italian – when you win, you’re the best. When you lose, the other side played too defensively. When you get slaughtered, the coach is to blame. Anything else? Don’t stop now, between the 3-0 thrashing and the bullshit excuses, you’re on a roll….”

I agree 100%!
Why can’t you show some respect and realize that you were not the better team today.
This is only the 1st game of the competition. You were outclassed and were run off the field tonight.
Deal with it and stop your bitching about coaches, and refs, and any other excuse you can come up with.

The best Italian excuse I have heard tonight: “Italy only cares about the world cup”. BWAHAHAHAHAHA.
Sore losers and idiots at that.
Holland won, you lost…lets get on to the next game on Friday.

Dean you cracked me up!! First, you seem to have forgotten the other 11 goals that Italy scored at the WC and the fact that they conceded only 2. Did the penalty against Australia help them score 3 goals against Ukraine in the QF and 2 goals against Germany in the SF? Or did Australia deserve to win that game just because they had more possession even though they had less shots on target and were playing a 10 man Italian team that took out its Top striker for a defender and had reverted to a defensive game tactically. WC performance has nothing to do with the Italian performance today. Second, who do you blame when you lose? Players and coaches. Who else? Everyone blamed the bad defense and the bad midfield and the bad forwards. We also blame the Coach who is responsible for setting the tactics and choosing the players. We also gave Holland credit for playing great football and making use of the mistakes and the apparent weaknesses of the Italian team tactically and player-choice wise.

But you are so blinded by your hatred and ignorant about anything football that you can’t wait to criticize everything. What do you want us to say? Italians suck at soccer? Italians can’t play soccer? Italians cheated there way into winning 4 world cups? Cannavarro doesn’t deserve fifa world player of the year for his performance at the WC? Buffon sucks? The Australians are the best footballers in the world because they got to the second round of the world cup and had more possession then a 10 man Italian team playing defensively without their top striker? Are you delusional or what man!!!

And what kind of a person goes around wasting his time spreading his bitterness and hatred about something that happened 2 years ago?

Everyone here is having a constructive debate about what went wrong with the Italian team today. What the players and the coach did wrong.

Go share your hatred and bitterness in your diary or something because no one wants to hear it.

Relax – yes they had their hat handed to them by a team that capitalized on the counter and executed by taking advantage of italy backfield coverage miscues. What I liked about the game – the first time I’ve seen them attack the net rather than play for the scoreless draw. Toni is a mule by himself. Del Piero, grosso warrant more playing time next game. Pirlo is playing lost with his partners – agreed he gatuso and ambrosini weren’t working well together – they should be they are teammates for chrissss sakes. Gatuso and ambrosini were over playing and over reacting. Camoronesi was invisible. Zambrotta came alive too late in the game. They always start slow, they always get beatup by the netherlands, they will take the next 2 no problems and move on beyond this kiss and giggle stage.

im not on the holland thread, am I?….go away RYAN if this upsets you goof ball. i know this is your one chance EVER (and never again) to gloat, but dont come on here and complain about whats being said between ITALY fans on an ITALY thread! you my friend are the IDIOT, dont you see?

Ryan,

A) we know we lost so relax

b) this is an italian board and we all seen the mistakes in Donadoni’s line up today that need to be brought to his attention.

Starting Ambrossini was the biggest and dumbest mistake i have seen and mentioned this before the game started. De Rossi was the best midfielder in Seria A why is he not starting????? An all AC Milan midfield when AC Milan had a weak year..this makes no sence he has to much leigence to ac milan and why Panucci why no Del Piero to start after leading seria a in goals?? to many misakes today by Donadoni or we could have put on a much better showing. we need to beat Romania and i feel we will still be in good shape.

Holland did play well and won deservedly,but I think most Italians feel that if Donadoni had played a different starting XI the result would be different. What is wrong with thinking that?

why cant we blame the coach? is he not the leader? dean is not a high school graduate me thinks.

Can we just talk soccer? Why do guys like Dean exist? The funny thing is they come on the Italy threads to showcase ignorance. To teach Italians “humiliation.” Apparently, two wrongs make a right in the rest of the world.

Meh. Says more about them than Italy.

Look, it’s over. The ref made his call. He wasn’t entirely wrong. It’s not why they lost. Holland was better.

Now Italy must look ahead. I don’t think Donadoni is the guy to rally them though.

How de Rossi was left out of the game is beyond me.

I think the devastatingly intelligent duo are correct. If we’re going to blame tactics for this loss – a major reason anyone would concede, Italian and Dutch alike – then the blame should be absolved from Donadoni and placed on the length of the grass on the pitch. Or the perfect roundness of the ball. Or Michel Platini. Or some fat guy hosing down bratwurst in the nose bleeds.

If tactics and personnel were a great deal to blame, then surely it’s not Donadoni’s fault.

It was hilarious seeing the Italian players diving for fouls that did not exist. It did not work this time. Yes Holland did the same thing but Italy kept on doing it even when they needed to score with little time left. And yes the penalty against Australia did count.

Definitely more of a high-school graduate than you, with your spectacular grammar and diction!

What do you guys think of the 4-3-3 formation Don is using with a lineup that has 10 players that are over 30?

Mido,

This has nothing to do with trying to get the Italian fan base to say Italy sucks. It has to do with the relentless ragging on other nations whether they win or lose to Italy. From complaints about defensive playing and excess counterattacking perpetuated by opponents (invented by the Italians btw) to extreme arrogance and this obscene self-entitlement, it never ends with the Italians. The only way to shut them up is to hand them their ass and send them packing.

Funny, you’d think a nation of chubby mamma’s boys living with their parents until age 40 and eating pasta all day would exercise some humility….wonders never cease! LOL!

If I were in Donadoni’s place:

Buffon

Panucci Barzagli Chiellini Grosso

Zambrotta Pirlo De Rossi Perrotta

Toni Di Natale/Del Piero

“And what kind of a person goes around wasting his time spreading his bitterness and hatred about something that happened 2 years ago?”

Lot’s of people.

But a better question might be: “What kind of person goes around wasting his time writing paragraph after paragraph when it will only spark more debate over what happened where and when and how and what and so on..?”

It’s fun though, eh.. You can admit it.

Dean,

I guess you’re just jealous that even though you crushed us, the Netherlands still have won less silverware than say…ENGLAND?!
Haha.

Dean,

1. What does your last sentence have anything to do with football? For someone who is attacking others for being sore losers and for being defensive win or lose you’re displaying quite the prejudice yourself that has no bearing nor relation to this subject of this blog.

2. How many times do we have to say that we agree and acknowledge the fact that Holland played better? Nobody is complaining about the way the Dutch played. Why would anyone do that? When is the last time Italy lost and the Italian fans complained that the opponents were playing defensive or played the counter-attack effectively??? Everyone here seems to be blaming first and foremost the decisions of the coach, manager and tactician. Second, everyone is blaming the players who performed badly. What more do you want?

3. Are Italians supposed to accept a humiliating defeat without analyzing and pinpointing the reasons and working to solve them??? You lose a match 3-0 accept defeat; change nothing; blame no one??? Go home and give up on the national team??? What kind of attitude is that??

4. Accepting that you made mistakes IS humility. The players accepted their shortcomings and apologized. Humility doesn’t mean giving up. It means admitting and accepting when you make mistakes and your weakness and working to improve them and solve your problems.

5. This is a football debate and honestly I don’t have time to keep arguing with you about useless stuff. Also, you criticized drunvalo for his grammar and diction yet you fail to recognize that he probably speaks 2 languages. He attacked your ARGUMENT as failing to meet high-school logic standards. You criticize his English which is probably his second language for failing to meet your standards. High-school logic is universal no matter what your first language is. But you can be a high-school graduate and not speak any English.

well said. 100% agree with everything here.

Who’s chubby, Dean?

FORBES LIST WORLDS FATTEST COUNTRIES 2007:

106. NETHERLANDS 46.0
107. Uzbekistan 46.0
108. Denmark 45.8
109. Mauritius 45.6
110. Oman 45.6
111. ITALY 45.5

Full credit to the Dutch on their win. I don’t rate them too highly however. The defense is rather ordinary, their attack looked lame in the second half, even though they were focused on defending. I think they had better tactics insofar as they utilized their speed in the counter-attack and were more clinical in front of the net which proved to be the difference in the game.

And what’s wrong with expecting nothing but the best from our team? I mean we hold more World Cups than any other European nation and are the current holders. I’d say if we’d be irrational to accept a loss with anything but utter disappointment.

Come back here and troll when the Dutch choke later on in the tournament as we both know they are so prone to do.

That’s what you get with Gattuso and Ambrosini.. The commentator said something so freaking true in this case.. You can’t just turn form on and off..

Ambrosini is utter garbage.. end of story.. I was swearing from when I saw the lineup till it became 3-0.. Donadoni needs to be fired.. full stop. That’s what he gets for his Milan bias.

I feel disgusted.. And you know what? I’d be surprised if Donadoni learns anything!!

Holy shit I think di Napoli from lonely salernitana in the serie b could of done better. And thank god there was a tie in the other game.

Ugh, if there’s anything that grates on me more than an ignorant footy fan, it’s a person whose ignorance extends beyond the realm of football. This is an effing football tournament, not some sad version of “My Country is Better than Yours”. mido pretty much said everything that needed to be said in eloquent fashion.

Major kudos to the Dutch for the #648,586,485th time because they certainly deserve it, and NO ONE is denying it. I really was quite impressed with what I saw, excited to see the rest of their matches.

Terrible way to start the tournament, but it ain’t over. Forza Azzurri!

Why we lost?

Culprit nº1: The Defense (in particular the center-backs)
Culprit nº2: The Offside (the call, not the website)
Culprit nº3: Roberto Donadoni
Minor culprits: The Midfield and Luca Toni

Elaborations here.

I think the first goal was unfortunate. It changed the face of the game. I don’t want to debate whether it was offsides or not. Remember, it is only a foul (or offsides if the official calls it). The second goal was a hell of a shot. However, being behind forced the Italians to push into the attack, this leaves them exposed in the back, hence the third goal. Remember, these guys have all played a long long season: champions league, Serie A, UEFA Cup, Inter-continental Cup. Not an excuse, but a factor. You could see it in the French team who have a lot of players playing for the top clubs around Europe. The same was true of Brazil in the last World Cup. They went from club play to WC training back to club training with not time to rest.
Personally, I would have liked to see Cassano come on earlier. In terms of the coach, I remember in the 82 WC when everyone was berating Berzot. Then they won, and he was a God. Two more games to go and a lot of soccer to be played. Did the result make it difficult? Yes, but the fat lady isn’t singing yet.

I have to say.. The Azzurri’s behavior due to the loss is questionable.. They’ve already starting pointing blame just like we are.. The France game will be electric.. Now it actually is gonna mean a lot!

The only thing that made the lineup bad was its lack of flexibility. We came in with a lineup that we were trying to get a 1-0 win with. When that went down the tubes so did the rest of the gameplan because there was no plan B.

I do like that Holland continues to attack with a lead, something I wish my Lupi would do more often, but they weren’t just attacking. They were leaving themselves wide open to concede if they were playing anyone that could score a damn goal. They need to shore up that issue. There’s a difference between attacking with a lead and doing your best to blow a lead. I guess today it didn’t matter though.

No Italy lost because Holland was better.

Never thought Dutch fans to be so, so, mean. Two wrongs make a right I suppose? Dean is a clown. Seriously, sad proof of the failures of the EU school system I guess. Chubby? Aren’t the Italians among the lightest in the world? And just who are these people to talk to Italians about high culture? Like I said, clown.

Can we just talk soccer? The funny thing is they come on the Italy threads to showcase ignorance. To teach Italians “humiliation.”

Meh. Says more about them than Italy.

Look, it’s over. The ref made his call. He wasn’t entirely wrong. It’s not why they lost. Holland was better.

Now Italy must look ahead. I don’t think Donadoni is the guy to rally them though.

How de Rossi was left out of the game is beyond me.

Camo was off… Pirlo was too far from his targets.

We have the leading scorers of both german and italian leagues. Let’s put them up front, with Pirlo their provider and build around that. 4 midfields, Pirlo, Camo, De Rossi, Aquilani/Gatuso.

We should be owning the opponents, not the opposite.

Are the players really pointing blame? Ahh fuck, we’re gonna tank.

whao whao whao! dean, must be more deep rooted than football for you.

I think we have a true biggot on these boards. “DEAN THE BIGGOT”

”Il guardalinee ha applicato al 100% la norma prevista dall’articolo 11 del regolamento Uefa, valutando la posizione di Panucci come quella del giocatore che teneva in gioco van Nistelrooy”. Lo dice Cesare Gussoni, presidente dell’Associazione italiana arbitri, a proposito del primo gol olandese all’Italia, contestato dagli azzurri che reclamavano per il fuorigioco del centravanti. ”Il senso della regola e’ evitare che un giocatore si approfitti della sua uscita dal campo per mettere in fuorigioco un avversario”, spiega Gussoni. In pratica il guardalinee non poteva stabilire se Panucci, uscendo dal campo, avesse o meno l’intenzione di far diventare off-side la posizione di van Nistelrooy. (Agr)

do you want me to translate what the president of the italian refrees association said about the first goal, or you think you know the rule more than him!!! the guy said the rule 11 was applied 100%, so stop whinning losers!

Do we really think Aquilani, Cassano, and De Rossi will find the field? Even though its obvious they should, I have my doubts.

Ya.. Pirlo was pointing fingers at Donadoni and criticized the decision not to play DDR ahead of Ambrosini.. While he’s got a point, that kind of talk is no help to anyone..

I think it’s fair to say De Rossi has done more for his reputation by just sitting on his bench than any other player… probably in history. Haha..

My head hurts.. I haven’t wrapped my head around this loss.. Right now I’m amused by how bad it is.. Tomorrow I’m gonna be quite upset for sure.

very unique situation though, the offside. we will probably never see such a thing again. oh and ALAA, we are passed the offside thing, but thanks for that and for the “losers” comment…nice touch.

ALAA whats up love your comments one happy DUTCHIE here man how can i get your email so we can chat about our VICTORY THE LIONS ARE LOSE WATCH OUT

I don’t know, I’m not totally shaken by this loss. I guess it’s because I know our best team wasn’t out there, but it’s still not a good feeling. What sucks more is that France played god awful and got a point, we didn’t. That is probably going to be huge later on.

I will say that the only thing that made Materazzi ever acceptable was the fact he was dangerous on set pieces. He has always pretty much sucked as a CB.

And BTW for those sore loser CRY CRY BABYS you lost you lost accept it and get on with your lifes let us celebrate and have fun ok O O sorry hardly forgot you lost 3 – 0 HAHAHAHAHAHA

stanley, you are an odd duck. go to the netherlands board, plenty of conversation there, im sure.

alaa wrote:
Il guardalinee ha applicato al 100% la norma prevista dall’articolo 11 del regolamento Uefa, valutando la posizione di Panucci come quella del giocatore che teneva in gioco van Nistelrooy”. Lo dice Cesare Gussoni, presidente dell’Associazione italiana arbitri, a proposito del primo gol olandese all’Italia, contestato dagli azzurri che reclamavano per il fuorigioco del centravanti. ”Il senso della regola e’ evitare che un giocatore si approfitti della sua uscita dal campo per mettere in fuorigioco un avversario”, spiega Gussoni. In pratica il guardalinee non poteva stabilire se Panucci, uscendo dal campo, avesse o meno l’intenzione di far diventare off-side la posizione di van Nistelrooy. (Agr)

do you want me to translate what the president of the italian refrees association said about the first goal, or you think you know the rule more than him!!! the guy said the rule 11 was applied 100%, so stop whinning losers!

Actually alaa, you have just proven the point that Panucci was NOT offside. The last sentence:

In pratica il guardalinee non poteva stabilire se Panucci, uscendo dal campo, avesse o meno l’intenzione di far diventare off-side la posizione di van Nistelrooy. (Agr)

…means the linesman was “unable to determine whether Panucci’s intentions were to purposely step off the field, in order to put Van Nistelrooy offside.”

If he was “unable to determine” that, he should have given the benefit of the doubt to the defense (as referees are instructed to do in these cases)!! Panucci got fu**ing run over by Buffon!!!! How on Earth was he intentionally stepping off the field to put RVN offside??? Makes absolutely no sense.

stanley give me your e.mail address, i’ll add you man, welcome oranje friend:)

Mamma Mia, thats a spicy meatball. The Azzuri got humbled by a better team tonite. Will they learn from it, or point fingers and make excuses. We will see if character will come through.

Let’s get this out of the way before our Azzurri friends make their pasta soggy with all the “whining” about the first goal:

Rule 11.11 – DEFENDER LEGALLY OFF THE FIELD OF PLAYA defender who leaves the field during the course of play and does not immediately return must still be considered in determining where the second to last defender is for the purpose of judging which attackers are in an offside position. Such a defender is considered to be on the touch line or goal line closest to his off-field position. A defender who leaves the field with the referee’s permission (and who thus requires the referee’s permission to return) is not included in determining offside position.

Italy can scream all it wants. Based on the rules, Holland’s Ruud van Nistelrooy was onside. The first Dutch goal was legitimate and any argument that today’s 3-0 thrashing of the Italians would have been any different is rendered moot.

The truth is Italy was out played from start to finish and was dull marks for the win. Italy looked disorganized, light years away from the form it showed just two years ago in winning the World Cup. When you couple Holland’s big win with the earlier 0-0 draw between France and Romania, the Dutch have to be ecstatic. They have seized control of the Group of Death.

Italy was very unlucky in the Dutch end…However, the biggest problem going forward is their defense.

Count on the Italy vs. France game to be the deciding factor for the 2nd seed advancing.

I never will tears for the men that play like actors on the pitch.

Go Germany…Engineered to Win!!!

Tony from NB.. If you’ve been reading, a lot of Italy fans have been saying the same thing already.. Lots of posts so it could be in any one of the past 3.. If you take the offside rule word for word then yes it was a good goal.. I think it was fair.. I saw nothing wrong with it not disallowed..

However the rule states that in order for it to be offside van Nistelrooy had to be closer to the goal line than Panucci.. Was he? Who knows? Very tough to take a tape measure and measure the distance of Panucci’s head to the line and van Nistelrooy’s foot to the line. If the linesman actually saw Panucci then he did well.. if not, he got the call right luckily.

I don’t think Italy were outplayed in the 2nd half at all.. They had possession for a large portion of it, kept pushing forward but in the end the players and coach blew it.. The first half was all one way.. Dreadful..

And I’m not Italian.. but this soggy pasta, greasy pizza and spicy meatball references are insulting are frankly racist.. That is well over the line.. I assume you were all educated, and if that’s the case you should be ashamed of yourselves..

If you are still in elementary or middle school and don’t know right from wrong yet, you shouldn’t be arguing with the big boys.. It would be past your bed time and you should be sleeping.. It is a school night after all.. I assume you’re grown up human beings like the rest of us.. So act like it and leave such racist, derogatory comments out of a football discussion.

This is the formation Italy needs to use.
4-1-3-2
The backline is Grosso and Zambrotta on the wings with Panucci and Chiellini in the middle. The 1 is Gattuso. He will do what Cannavaro would do: patrol the backline from side to side and push forward from box to box. On that second goal, when that ball went out wide to the left, I thought if Canna was playing he would’ve ran til battery acid came out of his chest to close down that counter attack. Gattuso will be the man to do that work.
The 3 will be: Pirlo in the centre, with De Rossi and Aquilani for company. Italy needs to win the next 2, and you only win by scoring goals. DDR and Alberto can score more so than Ambro, so to the bench goes Massimo.

In the same vein, Italy need goals so they need two strikers. Luca Toni with either the hungry Del Piero or Quagliarella (you know, the guy who can score from another planet).

There was no shame in losing to the Dutch. We all know the 3-0 scoreline is a bit skewed. Bottom line: Italy wins next 2 and its out of the group of death for Donadoni and Co.

Ditto Bashar. Anyone using insults to back up their arguments deserves no further commentary.

And no one here is denying Holland fully deserved their win, just that the first goal shouldn’t have been counted.

I thank Bashar again from the Italian side. I would like to add that Donadoni needs to be smacked out of his Rossonero mindset and into an Azzuro mindset where he will play who deserves to play and not all the Milan players he brought with him.

Don’t worry about Dean and other bloggers like that. He obviously doesn’t represent the rest of the oranje supporters. Come on Dean, grow up a little and stop giving other Dutch supporters a bad name. Honestly, having a go at people for analysing their teams performance?!?! Everyone does and should do that!!

Unlucky today boys, good luck for the the next match though

It’s a pity for Italy of course, but considering the international thoughts and reviews by professionals, about the first goal, and rule 11: this goal was simply wright. There is no doubt about that anywhere… only in Italy… so wake up please

I`m so upset about yesterday match! All the time of the game was full of tears and misunderstanding: where was Italian football team and what`s the sh*t was going on the field? It looked like some one cut their legs or something? I expected a great game i`d not forget. I Hope Donadoni would make right desisions after that horrible play, I even suppose he should.
Italian fans from Russia…

Bashar, just a technical point, but it doesn’t matter how far off the pitch Panucci was, because the interpretation expressly states that “Such a defender is considered to be on the touch line or goal line closest to his off-field position.”

The key is that the referee did not stop play nor authorise Panucci to leave the pitch.

If the first Dutch goal was in accordance with the rules, why haven’t any UEFA officials or any “experts” on tv or in print been able to state 100% whether or not that goal was good or not? Regardless, if we are to take all the times in recent history that Italy have been called offside when their goals were clearly good it is obvious that had Italy been the one to score that same goal, it would have been called offside.

Point 1 – lets see if Donadoni learns anything from the loss to the Dutch. Lippi was a master as in his longer, established career he made mistakes and profited from the knowledge gained.

Point 2 – agreed Ambrosini should never have played. It seems most Italians (including Andrea Pirlo) wanted De Rossi. Go back to Point 1, what will Pirlo learn from this.

Point 3 – Di Natale hasn’t played enough big games for us to judge his full credentials. Unless he gets more games he will never learn to become a big game star. Happy to concede it would be good to see other strikers get a shot (no pun intended). Lippi rotated his frontline in Germany until he worked out his best armory.

Point 4 – given the Holland match you would have to say Toni misses more than what he scores. Thats ok. As long as Donadoni uses him as a decoy or to set up his frontline. The problem with yesterday’s game was that Camoranesi offered no firepower on his flank. DON’T play Camoranesi.

Point 5 – Matrix’ form and fitness didn’t come right for this game. Donadoni should have seen this in training. One report I read suggested the absence of Robben and Van Persie (speed) gave Donadoni false confidence to play Matrix to give physical rather than expansive approach. I think the Italian team needs to work on their set piece drills. We should have better utilised our corners.

A lot of whining about the first goal. This is even more strange because ‘doubtful’ situations like this are mostly to the benefit of the Italians. This is how Italy normally wins their matches (and Holland looses their matches). This time it is simply the other way around. The Italians were beaten by their own weapon.

This Match EndScore is to good to be true.
People did Black Magic ( VOODOO ) on ITALY, because they are jealous that Italy is World Champion.
Captain Cannavaro get injured and cannot play, also by Black Magic.
And the Referree was very generous to Holland, also because of Sneijders birthday, so he gave them this match as a present, also by giving Italy the yellow cards instead of Holland.
This is the first time in history that Holland got this onrealistic miracles score of 3-0 against Italy.
So this miracle is definitely the cause of Black Magic !

I am Dutch and I am ashamed of my countrymen’s reaction to this very strange victory. The first goal was offside. Period. Perucci did not leave the field. He was knocked out of it. The Dutch blog even shows him lying on his back while Nistelrooy scores. To allow an offside goal in that situation, while the Italians were already at a disadvantage because they only had 10 men on the field, is about as unfair as it can possibly get. But don’t worry. The Dutch are not half as good as they think they are and will be eliminated soon enough.

Don define “normally.” You do realize soccer history is littered with this sort of stuff, right?

I thought that the midfield wasn’t our problem, although I would have preferred Quags or Del Piero right behind Toni and left off Ambrosini. We made chances for whomever was playing up front. Grosso, Toni, Del Piero, Camoranesi (even if he didn’t take it) all had chances to do something and were all fed through the midfield.

The First goal was freakish, unlucky and you can’t really do anything about that.

The second and third goals were a result of our outside defenders playing too far up, not getting back in time and lacking a bit of skill. Zambrotta was in position to something both times to break up the play and was a spectator. Grosso and Panucci was nowhere to be found. Our Central guys weren’t swift enough to attack the ball coming down the field and then pick up any strays in front of the goal.

All in all it was team effort as our defenders were caught out of position and our attacking players couldn’t find net… although I thought Pirlo had two nice free kicks.

Yes De Rossi, Perrotta, Cassano, chiellini and grosso should’ve started this game withe del piero coming on for the second half. WHAT I DON’T UNDERSTAND…………..When the world cup champion ITALIANS are down 2-0 do you not realize as a coach that something is seriously wrong. The second goal was action time and two or three substitutions should’ve been made right there! As a coach you react and are supposed to fight fire with fire. Pull up your fucking socks donadoni!!!!!!!

Yes good call Mad. One other incident that seems to be overlooked as it’s not commented on yet is Toni’s failure to play in Di Natali in the opening stages when Cameronesi found him with a superb ball.

All he had to do was to head the ball down but he instead went for glory and put it wide. That was a certain goal and Italy would’ve been one up.

“Remember, these guys have all played a long long season: champions league, Serie A, UEFA Cup, Inter-continental Cup. Not an excuse, but a factor.”

As have the Dutch, so yeah, it really is a moot point you’re bringing up here.

“I guess you’re just jealous that even though you crushed us, the Netherlands still have won less silverware than say…ENGLAND?!”

Excuse me? Get your facts straight before commenting. TIA.

“Never thought Dutch fans to be so, so, mean. Two wrongs make a right I suppose?”

Generalizations are easy to make, aren’t they? Good job.

“Seriously, sad proof of the failures of the EU school system I guess.”

Seriously..? Should I take this comment seriously? No. Let me point and laugh again. Good god man, not only do you begin with stating some ridiculous BS, but you follow up on it with this hypocritical bullshit. What are you going to do next mister?

“The funny thing is they come on the Italy threads to showcase ignorance.”

I see, this was next.. Let me reiterate that you sir, are a hypocrite.

Good day!

I have, bunchapooha. England has one WC, the Netherlands have a Euro. Find me someone who values the Euros over the WC, and I’ll give you this point.

Nistelrooy was blatantly offside, panucci was clearly off the pitch. This whole garbage about rule 11’s invocation was a damned afterthought to save the ref from the masses following the worst decision of these matches thus far. The dutch deserved their win, no doubts.

As well, go easy on the anti-Italianism, this isn’t the ’50s and it’s not fashionable to be a racist anyhow.

FORZA ITALIA

Alessio. 1 = 1. It’s not 2. Netherlands has one, England has one, despite it being a WC and a EC, it’s not “less silverware”, whichever way you look at it.

Again, find me someone who values the Euros over the WC, and I’ll give you this point.

Alaa its stanleylejuez@hotmail.com

@ alessio | June 10th, 2008 at 1:46 pm: Well that’s not that difficult, a lot of former WC players themselves admit that the EC are more difficult than the WC, for example read http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=730988

Quote Gallas

‘Comparisons have been drawn to France’s opening match of the 2006 World Cup when a tepid draw against Switzerland was negated by positive results against South Korea and Togo.

With Italy and the Netherlands considerably stronger than les Bleus’ adversaries from two years ago surely there is more concern in the French camp? Gallas is not convinced.

“More worry? I don’t know,” he said. “The European Championship is more difficult than a World Cup.”

You’d think that Donadoni would know his players by now after qualification and friendlies but thats obviously not the case. He has no idea who to pair with who or who to play on the pitch period. He is definitely not the coach italy needs to do well in any sort of tournament. He reminds me alot of Trappatoni and his blunders at Korea/Japan 2002. For italy to do well from here on they have to put aside their notion that they need cannavaro to win and they need to get much more organized at the back as well as not always relying on Toni to score for them. Del Piero worked hard enough in the Serie A this year that he definitely should be in the thick of things for his side. theyve got the right idea by using an attacking formation, NOW START ATTACKING for goodness sakes!

“Again, find me someone who values the Euros over the WC, and I’ll give you this point.”

Hehe, well you have one.

Hard one though. You can’t compare the two championships. In the WC you play more opponents, so the road to the final is longer, but not necessarily harder, all depends on who you play really. You could argue that the WC is easier to win, just because Italy has 4 of those and only 1 EC title, but it’s not really a valid argument..

I can say without certainty though, that the qualifications for the WC are easier than for the EC, no doubt about that.

I can’t believe Donandoughnut left out De Rossi for this game, what was he thinking. The Roma midfielder was the form player in midfield in Serie A this year, and he would’ve added some much needed life to a midfield that was utterly dead. Gatusso was running around like a headless chicken, he looked like a red card waiting to happen. I’m a fan of his approach to the game, but he needs to cool it down, we don’t need to go down to 10 men in this group. Pirlo was below par but still the best of the starting bunch. Grosso too should never have been on the bench, Materazzi was terrible, ditto Barzagli, Chiellini should get his chance next time. The whole defence needs a shake up because it was like watching a team of 8-year olds at the back. Up front I agree Di Natale proved he can’t hack it at this level again, Camoranesi as ever lively but lacking a cutting edge that Cassano showed when he replaced him, Toni fluffed a good chance but he’s the best we’ve got in that position. Del Piero is due a big tournament and after his goal 2 years ago in Germany and slotting in a pen against Fr*nce I have a feeling now is the time. My line-up would be Buffon, Zambrotta, Panucci, Chiellini, Grosso, Pirlo, Gatusso, De Rossi, Cassano, Toni, Del Piero. Shame we can’t substitute the coach too!

“You’d think that Donadoni would know his players by now after qualification and friendlies but thats obviously not the case. He has no idea who to pair with who or who to play on the pitch period.”

Indeed. It’s a bit like taking a burger flipper and making him CEO of a billion dollar coorporation. The Italian FA should never have appointed him, he was clearly far too inexperienced, he’s a baby in management terms. Lippi – the best Italian manager of the modern era IMO – must be persuaded back to the bench after this competition whatever the cost.

hollandians are showing they are true
european champion that`s what they are
made of. spain and holland will go places.

watch out

fm; nelson
Ghana

Guys, ignore penal landers like Dean. he doesnt seem to have history or culture t he ape he is..

BTW, the latest rumours is that Donadoni is going to opt for a 4-3-1-2 with Del Piro or Cassano in that hole behind the strikers. Yesterday, the whole team went to Vienna with their family except for Talentino Cassano who opted to sleep in his room, iam sure now is the time for the greatest natural talent to showcase his skills to the world. expect Cassano to do something incredible Friday..The squad starting for the match for me should be…..
BrickWall GIGI

Mr.Como( Zambrotta) Chiellini Barzagli Grosso

Pirlo

de Rossi Ambrosini

Cassano

Toni DiNatale

Del Piero to come in for DiNatale in the 50th minute…

Guys, as far as iam concerned this is a forum for Italian fans to discuss what went wrong the other day, i see that penal landers and jealous assswipes like Dean and others are spoiling the ambience..so my request for others is just to ignore Dean..Poor thing , he has had nothing to cheer for in his life and he is pissed off with that fact..Regarding the australia match,in the first place, Italia dominated in the first half and it was a matter of time before a goal was due until that joke of a red card to Materrazzi..Also, aussies played rugby instead of football and it was pathetic to see the technical inferiority of aussies..

BTW franknelson(Ghana), Spain at the most will reach quarterfinals where they will meet Italia or Holland and will be blown off ..Holland will never win like they they did against Italia the other day on counter attacks..Fluke happens..

I have to agree with you Marco on #3 & #4. Being a Scotland fan I wasn’t sure whether to be jealous because ‘that could have been my team’ or whether to worry about playing Holland in the next WC qualifiers… Anyway, back to *now*:

From the Scottish experience of the Euro Qualifiers I would say that Di Natale was ‘alright’ but not much more. During the Euro Qs I would look at him and think “We can definitely beat the likes of him” (same went for Cameronesi)- but would look at Del Piero and think “We’ll be really lucky to beat him”. I also think that Luca Toni is definitely a strikers’ striker. By that I mean he has a knack of getting into positions to score. Sometimes he finishes, sometimes he doesn’t – but he does get into the positions. I wonder how significant the unavailability of Cannavarro was?

I’m very much looking forward to the France v Italy game; I expect Italy to impose themselves on France.

The match with Romania will be a very tense affair for me. i mean, it is no secret that Romania will defend with all they have and rely on fast counter attacks..Bringing on de rossi will give us a great option when another team is on counter attack because of his great ability to get back along the center. We must must play both Cassano and Aquilani from the start and take risks because we need to score first and then we might sneak in another one or two when Romania opens up a bit. It will be nerve wracking, Donadoni must and should realise that a draw will also definately put us out of the tournament( we have the worst goal difference, so even if we win against France in the last match, it might not be enugh)…
The three creative players, Grosso(left back), Cassano8 forward or a trequarterista in the hole behind strikers) and aquilani as the left winged midfielde must be played from the start..

materazzi only looked good in the WC because he had canna behind him to clean up his mess