Screw You, UEFA

Hahah bitter Italians as usual. Blaming anything but their sore, poor performance. 2010 wont be any different.

Romania kicked ass today, almost throwed you away from the competition…:))) seems like its up to france to do that!

Harsh!

I have to agree, some of the decisions in this tournament were damn right outrages!

I hope Donadoni gets dumped regardless though

I may be a French partisan, but man that offside call and the PK were total bull. I’ll be sad if our finale is dependent on the result of Holland v Romania, especially if Holland have nothing to play for. Unless France crushes Holland today then Italy’s only chance will be to crush France.

The final group matches are played simultaneously correct? I hope Holland and France draw. Then, Dutch will have 4 pts, Romania and France on 2 and Italy on 1. All the teams will have something to play for on the final day.

Caesare, not Romania, but UEFA
We have a chance, small, but still a fuckin’ chance!

WTF is doin’ Don? We have to score – Ambro on the putch, tremendous (((

Yeah, aside from Cassano, the subs were useless. Where was Aquilani?

But the blame clearly resides with the refs here. Zambro should’ve had a cushion for his blunder.

Can I ask why my comment was deleted? This is a free blog and I’m entitled to say what I want to, and if that means saying Italy sucked then so be it.

Aquilani should have come on!! I stopped watching when Ambro came on.

The PK should have been called. Come on lets be fair and consistent. Panucci was all over that guy even though he shouldn’t have been the chance wasn’t that dangerous. But that offside call is complete BS. I can’t believe it. Watch UEFA come out and say it was OFFSIDE.

Italy’s national passtime is getting jobbed by referees. This is absolutely ridiculous…but I guess I’m no longer surprised anymore. It’s almost as if we should expect this.

Unreal. F the Euro Cup…What does it mean anyway? I mean, Greece…seriously?

This is scandalous. I’m disappointed, look at those refs, unbearable!

Awww, wittle baby needs his comment back.

It was not an offside. Italy should have 1-0. However it’s very hard to judge that particular case. The assistant referee often listens to the sound of the ball being played when making his judgement, his eyes being on the line.

Considering it’s 50m to the referee with speed of sound 340 m/s we get 50/340 = 0.15 seconds before the sound reaches the referee

The romanian player is running up to put the italians offside say 6 m/s he runs 6*0.15 = 0.9 i.e. almost 1 meter before the sound reaches the referee and he raises the flag. The numbers are guessed but you get the picture.

I think Italy got stop crossing the ball in all the time, shoot when your just outside of the 18yard box-never know what can happen. Cassano makes a hugh differences when he on. Pirlo should have been taken out.

Pirlo was just so atrocious on set pieces.

Cassano from the start against France, please.

What the fuck can Platini do about it if the ref makes a bad call? Postpone the game and wait for Collina to come out of retirement or what?

We drew. Ok. We were robbed, of course, but I dont feel so bad. Or I guess I should say, I dont feel as bad as I could. At least the team played well.

italy played to much long balls

What’s the best result for us, a draw between France and Holland?

We were robbed, nonetheless. We played decently but Toni was so wasteful, good god. What is with him?

Zambrotta errored, the ref errored, but neither should have mattered because Toni should have had a brace, easy.

The Italy Coach make it or not in this Euro 2008 as to leave before the 2010 world cup.

This Guy is not appreciated by the players is not aggressive but passive.

Can’ t motivate …………………..nobody.

I cant stand luca toni is any one with me on this? take away his credientals and look at just for how he has played with the azzuri- are you not dissapointed. He looks like a clutz and doofose out there, is it just me??

Yes a holland v france draw would be best for us or next best thing a france victory, then if we beat france we would still qualify as our head to head result would count not goal difference, thats as long as Romania doesn’t beat holland of course!

Seems like all of Toni’s important goals are unjustly ruled offsides (WC Final)

uefa didn’t even mention the offside goal:

http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tournament/matches/match=300695/report=rp.html#brilliant+buffon+keeps+italy+contention

Who’s shocked?

(And it’s screw you UEFA for running such a bush league tournament so far.)

Shit holland 1-0 uo after 9 minutes!!! shit!

I can’t wait for Silvio Berlusconi to come out and say “I would like to kill Tom Henning Ovrebo”…

THANK GOD FOR HOLLAND MAN!! I HOPE THE FRENCH ARE CRUSHED!!

Italy had plenty of chances due to the incompetent Romanian keeper just blasting his goal kicks all the way across the field.

That being said, the officiating was terrible. I almost feel sorry for the Italians.

Still love to see Borriello on for Toni against France, but it’ll never happen. I think Borriello gets the lift to get on one of those crosses, and has enough of a burst to get to Del Piero’s through ball.

Donadoni had to do at least one stupid thing today, hence the Ambro sub.

And Holland goes up 1 in the 10th minute…bad news for us. We need the dutch to be playing for something against Romania.

Like to see Cassano start against France in place of ADP. Love to see what Aquilani can do for us, but that’s doubtful.

really hope for the draw in Netherlands game, but ***k them all, we just have a direct task: forget about ref and win the last game, never mind who is the opponent.

and MB Borriello should have a chance, MB, but not Quaq, agreed that he was totally lost!

Ps ADP is hott Garbage! Ambrosini in at the end of them GAME?!?!?! Where is Aquiliani? To many long balls, if we woulda shot the ball like the Romanians we would have won 4-1. Saying all this we still have slim odds of advancing!

wow once again Italy is robbed

italy played 1093492574893758493759x better than monday and should have credit given for that. Buffon’s save, amazing as usual. Romania’s goal, Zambro’s fault. Toni being offside, BULLSHIT. All I know is that we need Neds and Frenchies to tie that way we can beat said Frenchies next week and still be through. We deserved this game and we can’t blame it on the players

I have a GREAT question for you all:

What refereeing decisions do you think have been worse, this tournament so far or Italy-Korea in the 2002 WC???

Maybe a poll chris?

great idea ilcapitano, though I think Korea was more obvious. Most of this seems incompetence because there’s no one beneficiary.

france is sucking so badly

I think Toni thought he was offside, I thought he would have protested like a mad man though he does have one yellow card to his name already, right? Regardless, it was still a awful call. Shit just isn’t going our way.

I don’t really care about italy finishing first in their group. I’d rather see France lose this match. If holland doesn’t lose in the group stage it will give italy a better chance at qualifying for the finals. Think about it, with Romania now at 2 points, france at 1, italy at 1, and holland at 3. If romania loses to holland they stay at 2 points and france hopefully still at 1 after this holland match. After that it would be up to italy to defeat france and secure a spot in the finals. Let’s hope they can.

If romania beat holland it won’t matter either way.

For once I’m going to go ahead and say, go holland keep doing your thang.

Can someone explain to me why a France victory is good for us?

Assuming we beat France and Holland ties with Romania, then Italy, France, and Holland are tied on points and we’re out because of goal differential (unless we defeat France by a wide margin). Only if Holland beats Romania, then do we go through on France’s expense.

On the other hand, with Holland beating France, unless Holland loses to Romania, we’ll be through with beating France by any score.

Neo you think we have a shot of beating france?

I hate to tell you guys I told you so, but I did. Toni is not a big game player. He racks up the goals not doubt but shit even in qualificatons, look at the goals he has scored? How many of them rally mattered? I have always loved his heart but he always seems to be just off in the big games. Today was no different. Yes, the refereeing was shitty BUT good teams rise above that. It appeared we were on our way with Panucci’s goal and I was optimistic when Cassano came on, but let’s face it, this team needs an overhaul. We rely too much on Toni. I am clammoring for Borriello but let’s face it, Donadoni will start Toni again!! I love he Azzurri but I have made peace witht he fact that they ain’t going through. Bring on the WC 2010 qualification matches in September.

If the linesmen would cover their sides of the pitch in its entirety like they used to, maybe they would’ve seen Toni’s goal as onside. Instead, linesmen only cover their side of the pitch to the halfway line, making anything occuring on the far side of the linesman or in a clustered area impossible to see.

France need to equalise. If holland win, they’ll play their scrubs against Romania, and that won’t be good for us.

Yeah we do. France is weak.

French victory is the worst scenario, Neo.

I agree, France is not looking particularly monstrous right now.

Yes Giro and the chance of that would be greater with France losing tonight, because then they’ll also need to win and it’ll be an open game really. On the other hand, if France wins tonight, then forget about it because they know us too well and they’ll pack it in the middle.

Alessio I know ur a Juve fan, tell me honestly do u think Del Piero should step on the pitch ever again in International play?

“france is sucking so badly ”

never thought i would hear an italian fan say this with a sad face… oh how the have fallen..

Agreed Chris. The fact that it was the hosts, a team who had no business of being in the semifinals, who benefited made it much worse.
But these decisions are just horrible. How could the linesman last game see Panucci keeping RVN onside when he was OFF THE FIELD and this fuck head couldnt see Codrea ON THE FIELD!!! (and thats not even mentioning how that “super-ref” could tell if Panucci wasnt hurt)

They also blew the penalty call. Thank God for Gigi Buffon!

Yes, and if you saw the replay, in one of Italy’s chances, the Romanian defender appeared to handle the ball in pushing the ball back to his keeper with his chest.

http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/jun13q.html

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME???

The Romania coach is trying to say Italy were lucky, not unlucky to get the draw. His reason: the missed penalty. That wasnt lucky, that was BUFFON!

Yeah, he’s that good, stop being jealous.

Giro, also not my question, but have a thought, that Del Piero should play, but only as a sub, supe-sub or smthg.

There is no doubt abou cassano’s first place, but that’s everyone’s words and thoughts, not fuckin’ Don’s…

Idiot! When Zambrotta, one of the most reliable players, gives you a free goal…count yourself realllllllllly lucky!!

Exactly, Neo!

oh sorry for my English, surely my weakest point =(

Pippo anyone?

YES, ADP deserves to play..He almost scored and created a goal for Toni, which was unfortunately disallowed.

The French will foul us until we’re bloody and the refs will call nothing.

Winning will be up to us. If Toni doesn’t score in the first half, he should be pulled.

Yeah, Pippo would be a very nice option to have…

Holland-France draw is best, in my mind. That way it looks like:

Holland:4
France:2
Romania:2
Italy:1

No team is qualified, everybody is playing for the win- If we win and Holland win, we both go through, if we win and Romania and Holland tie, we’re through. If Romania wins, we will lose out to Holland on head to head. I think this is our best chance.

If Holland wins today, it’s
Holland:6
Romania:2
France:1
Italy:1

Holland is qualified, and guaranteed 1st. They have nothing to play for, while Romania needs the win to qualify. Holland can play their subs (who are still great, mind), and won’t have the killer instinct. This is the least desirable outcome in my opinion.

If France wins today:
France:4
Holland:3
Romania:2
Italy:1

A win against France and we pip them based on head to head, unless Holland and Romania tie, in which case it’s three ways and we lose on goal diff (unless we pound france). If Romania wins, or Holland wins that other game, then a victory over France sees us through.

A France-Holland result is clearly the one we want most. I think France winning is slightly better than than Holland winning otherwise, though it’s not clear cut- what’s more likely, Holland losing a game they don’t need to get any points from, or Holland tying a game that puts them through with a tie?

Between France’s 4 minutes of extra time at Euro 2000 (when no more than 1 or 2 were warranted), the controversies at WC 2002, and now Euro 2008, someone should do a documentary and post it to YouTube. It has gotten so old I’ve come to expect nothing less.

Holland defeating France is the worst thing that can happen for Italy…Let me explain why. If Holland beats France, Holland will have 6 points and clinch 1st place, Romania will be 2nd with 2 points, and Italy and France will both be last with 1 point each. Now, because Holland will already clinch 1st place, they could actually let Romania beat them on tuesday and it wouldn’t matter what happens in the Italy vs. France game, cause Romania would have 5 points and the best that Italy and France could do is only 4 points. And if you don’t think that Holland would “let” Romania beat them, think again. It happened to Italy last Euro Cup…remember Denmark vs. Sweden which ended 2-2? Hopefully, Holland and France tie and that means all four teams will have something to play for in their last games on tuesday. But a Holland win against France unofficially means the end for Italy.

Even the refereeing luck against France hurts us! Should’ve been a PK there.

Joey- Basically everything you mentioned besides Euro 2008 is in this video. Its a tearjerker, and one of my favorites. Really shows you how badly we wanted that WC and hoe much we deserved it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=U3vpSDoynO0

Henry just pulled a Toni!!!

mido, no comparison between Toni’s chance and Henry’s chance…

2-0 Holland, that’s it for Italy

I’ll admit it…Holland is fucking nasty in the counter

SHIT, 2-0. Now we’re in trouble. To their credit, Dutch are truly wonderful on the counter. Also, Coupet is horrible.

Credit to RVN for the nice touch..

Being Italian, I never thought I’d be cheering for France, but here it goes…..Go France….Please!

Neo- what do you mean no comparison? If anything Henry blew an easier chance. He had more time than Toni to stop the ball, move to the right and kick it in.

LOL man the French are worse than the Azzurri!! I mean the Azzurri defense was garbage and the goals were pretty much their fault. The French apparently learned nothing from that match and are getting slaughtered.

Not sure if this is correct, but im pretty sure the CR called Toni offside on the goal, NOT the linesman…which leaves no excuse since the CR was RIGHT THERE!

This is the best thing that could happen.;

France is gone.

We beat them, Romania loses or ties, and we are through.

Punta basta Daniele from Canada

get a new name thats mine!

The linesman’s flag went up as soon as Toni hit it, the ref only held his hand up when the ball hit the net and he saw the linesman’s flag. Nevertheless, the CR should’ve had the position to overrule.

France misses Zidane as much as Italy misses Cannavaro. Sad to think that Romania will go through just because they played Holland last.

Yea Daniele.. Romania lose or tie.. That’s not gonna happen..

Holland ensure 1st place.. Smart thing to do is rest your stars and let Romania win so you play them (if they qualify to quarters)..

This just in…Major League Baseball will employ replay at some point this season. If the old men’s club MLB, run by that idiot Bud Selig, can see the need for replay to get it right in one game of 162, how can the powers that be at FIFA and UEFA not see that perhaps replay on certain plays, ie offside goals, should be employed. These are do or die tournament games for chrissake!

YES!

WooHoo France! One more….please!

SHIT!

THAT WAS SICK.

Henry is the man.

Always will be.

Holy Fuck!

LOL 3-1

wow.
what a turn around

Dutch to win the tournament IMO.

Coupet = HORRIBLE. That was a goal you only make in videogames. Wow.

3-1 Holland play absolutelly great…they win the group C…i hope the second team will be Romania

Well, if I’m Holland, I’m blowing the last game on purpose if it means both Italy and France would be knocked out. I’m predicting an “upset” next tuesday….Romania beats Holland.

Romania and Holland to qualify..

Portugal vs. Holland in the final…with Holland winning it all in extra time.

Robben’s goal is going to be the best goal of the tourn…haha at least the French can make headlines now haha…gotta say don and domenech are making a genius out of the mediocre van basten…thats how bad they are…

this group is the whole tournament…these other groups are BS

Yeah Holland is a good team…but with they’ve benefited so much from officiating errors so far…France had a penalty denied, which would have changed the game…same thing with Italy, a garbage offside goal changed the whole game….

You know what? What people are saying about the tie being the best outcome due to the fact that holland could “let” romania win is a pretty valid.

But to be honest, I don’t think the dutch would do that. We’ll have to wait and see I suppose.

That is unless france pulls some greatness out of their ass right about now.

The only thing we can do now is hope that Holland doesn’t do what Denmark and Sweden did last euro cup….pretending to play a real game. The way I see it, if Holland can easily beat the World Champions and the runners-up, then they should have no problem with Romania. If Romania does beat Holland, then we’ll all know why. Let’s see if this Fair Play rule actually works.

Matthew….why wouldn’t Holland do it? They have nothing to lose. They already clinched first place and letting Romania beat them would mean that both Italy and France are out….two teams that Holland could have to face in the semi-finals. Holland will do it. 4 years ago, a 2-2 draw is what both Denmark and Swedent needed to ensure that both of them go through, and that’s exactly what happened. Coincidence? I don’t think so!

Holland will beat or tie Romania.

We just need to win and we are through.

Then pull our heads out of our asses, get nerw refs, and bring back Lippi.

Sounds easy no?

France look like ass.

And they play like high schoolers.

Domenech is a fucking idiot for Leaving Mexes home.

Exactly Matteo..

They won’t make it obvious, but it will happen..

4-1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy shit.

They are unstoppable.

GO HOME FRANCE GO HOME.

Wow. Well, at least this way, if Holland pounds Romania, a tie might even see us through on PKs.

Again…just like the scoreline against Italy…unfair!! FRENCH PENALTY DENIED!!! this EURO cup is a sham!!!

Uefa should be using the current Fifa world rankings to seed teams when drawing the groups, not results from 3 years ago (world cup 06 qualifying results). Italy, Germany, France, and Spain should have been the top 4 seeds and placed in different groups.

They WILL throw the Romania game, I guarantee it

At this rate, Holland should beat Romania 6-0, but it won’t happen…Romania will “upset” Holland.

I really can’t believe… shame! Only one worв can describe this tournament!
ilcapitano, completely agree with you, they will throw…

I’d like to what UEFA says about the offside call on Toni’s first half goal. Let’s see what new rule they come up with this time.

Holland plays their entire 2nd choice side. Van Basten might even try a different keeper in each half, he has that luxury. Even their backups could beat Romania though.

It’s not whether or not Holland’s subs can beat Romania…Holland will let Romania win next tuesday, even if they have to score in their own net.

I heard all this talk coming into the tournament about how, becuase of a new rule this year, if 2 teams are tied on points at the end of the last group game, and if they were playing each other last in the group, that penalties would decide it. but i am reading the rules, and they make clear that head to head is the first tiebreaker, then goal difference, etc. where did all this talk of the “new rule” and “penalty decider” come from? there is nothing in the rules, as far as i can see. anyone?

If they tied when they played and tied at points, then penalties..

I think we might see that on Sunday.. Turkey Czech..

I didn’t think that France would get pounded like that.

There. I said it.

It only comes into play if the teams are also tied on goal differential and goals scored.

atleast were still alive!! If france woulda won we would be out of it….so we gotta win and hope for a Romania loss or tie! Were still alive!!

On the other hands Italians and French can’t expect Holland to choose Team A against Romania.

It’s a chance for Huntelaar, Stekelenburg and others to play and then no injury or red card risk for the top players.

I hope Holland aren’t “loosers” and beat Romania on Tuesday, and hopefully Italy will start Cassano and beat France.

If Cassano doesn’t start on Tuesday, consider our Euro 08 finished !!…will the Dutch be that shameless to throw away a match ?

I dont think the Romanians have a win in them

They might, Giro.
Today’s draw was huge for them, and now they’re probably hoping for a Cinderella Story.

Why… why does it always come down to FRANCE ?

Now we have to listen to Domenech run his mouth all weekend.

The Romanians certainly have a win in them – they almost pulled it out today.

You all must know Romania was the first in qualification group . And Holland second in the same group … Romania won the game against Holland last year .
So …

I think this might remind of a similar situation about four years ago where someone named antonio was our best player but we failed to qualify for the groups stages…

I know…the Dutch will come out every day until Tuesday telling the media that they are playing to win on Tuesday. However, we all know that this game has already been decided before it’s been played. In fact, it’s not even a matter of Van Basten TELLING his players to throw the game. It’s an unspoken understanding. That’s just how it is. Italy and France are going home regardless of the outcome. It’s that simple.

It stinks to be talking about it this way, but it is the norm in circumstances like this. We’ve already brought up Euro 2004. I see it no differently this time around. What kills me is the fact that I’m leaving for Italy on the 17th (during the match), so I won’t even be able to see the disappointment…maybe that’s a good thing.

That being said, it was a year ago, and before Holland gained confidence from beating the World Cup finalist teams

The only hope I have is that the Holland bench that’s gonna start against Romania is going out to prove something..

How the fuck was Pirlo named MOTM?

It was, all in all, ridiculous that Toni’s goal was called offside. But still, we need to have some faith in the integrity of the Oranje and as well in Italy’s ability to play.

You all must know Romania was the first in qualification group . And Holland second in the same group … Romania won the game against Holland last year .
So …

alessio, haha you’re right…its because the incompetence of the UEFA technical team is equivalent to the incompetence of UEFA officiating…

Both Italy and Romania played an excellent game today. They both could have won. The missed penalty was a huge mistake for romanians, and they may pay for it by going home. However, someone already posted here that in qualifications Romania was in the first place, after 2 games vs. Holland, first ending in 0-0 and last ending in a victory for Romania 1-0. I hope they manage a tie at least if not victory against Holland on Tuesday and the worst mistake everyone here can do is underestimate them. Whoever said Holland “reserves” will beat Romania should maybe reconsider in my opinion.

Holland also hasn’t beaten Italy in 30 years. Whoops. History counts for nothing once the Euro starts.

really at the moment why would Holland want Romania to go through? France is old and bad, and Italy is old and coached by a fucking idiot. Holland just destroyed both France and Italy so maybe they’ll have the mentallity of lets beat Romania so we can face Italy or France again because we fucking destroyed them. Mind you it would be totally stupid on there part but hey one can hope.

Forza Italia

I hope uefa watch holland very closey if they are compeitive and lose ok

but if they roll over 3 or 4 nill then they should lose points

the fairness of the sport means everything

uefa watch this closley

i still feel like throwing up (and sadly no i’m not exaggerating ) one time i can get into the stadium to watch any game in vienna — italy is not even gonna make it here !!! WTF !!! so anyways…since my head still hurts — has anyone worked it out if holland wins and italy and france play a draw ..who the hell goes through ?

lets hope that Holland and Romania tie, i can see this happening…Azzuri over France 2-0????

MK… dunno why this 30 years thing keeps on coming up, its hardly that relevant. They’ve played like 2 times in the last ten years. 2000… holland LOST to italy they were hardly BEATEN and the 3-1 match before WC 06 was a friendly – so it doesnt mean that much.

god, get over it. Holland outplayed ya. You’re going home. Your luck has run dry.

*they lost it for themselves.

*in 2000 =)

-Cassano doesn’t belong on the national team. Sure he doesn’t. Del Piero is NOT a starter. Cassano MUST start.

-The defense is so vulnerable but Chiellini is an improvement over Materazzi.

-Ma, is it possible Italy NEVER gets an offside call? People always remember the calls in their favour but the ones that go against them are awful.

-On the plus side, at least the Italy blog leads in comments posted.

-FIFA is set to check out the mysterious offside rule. That says a lot. What a crock that whole thing was. Soccer rules should be clear – this is not fricken interpretive dancing.

-NOW GO OUT AND SIMPLY BEAT FRANCE (and hope Romania doesn’t beat Holland). Speaking of which, what a special spanking they put on the French. Oooo, nelly!

And Grosso is a star.

depends how many goals holland beat romania tea, but as its already been said many times Holland will roll over to Romania on tuesday, I just cant see how holland would want a rematch with Italy or France in the semis, but the form holland have been in they ’should’ at LEAST get a draw with Romania, anything less and its a planned loss!! im putting a bet on Romania beating the dutch on tuesday, think its a dead cert!!

How close a friend is Donadoni to van basten anyway? they were team mates at milan, would this be a factor? yes I am clutching at straws btw!

Nice ref today! BRILLIANT! The penalty was ok, though. Panucci has got a habit of pulling players down in the box.

But wtf was Don thinking? Again to late with the subs. And why the fuck did he replace Camo with Ambro. A defensive midfielder on for a winger when you need a goal.. BRILLIANT!!!

what a bunch of pessimistics, why would Marco van Basten make himself look like a loser and lose to the Romanians intentionally?? If he keeps a player on the bench to prevent injuries that’s completely understandable, but I hardly think he’ll line up all his second choices. He’ll want to come up with a good team capable of winning the match. Give the guys some credit.

wouldnt the dutch be smart to send france or italy to meet spain (most likely group D winners) instead of giving them a easier job vs romainia. smarter to send someone who may beat or atleast weaken spain (yellows or reds)for the semis? sound right?

Hope you are correct migloigle! but we have been in this situation before, fingers crossed Holland get a result but im doubtful…and a pessimist

You could have a point drunvalo, I guess we will just have to wait and see on tuesday, and all will be revealed. Im so frustrated, cos now I have to wait yet another three days before we know. It could have been almost wraped up if we beat Romania! aahhh!!!!

Good point, drunvalo

do you guys know if they’re coming back to vienna to their base/hotel whatever ..or are they staying in Zurich ? i might as well go watch the training …at least i won’t bite all my nails off

Man, we are even losing the amount of blog comments to the dutch!

If San Marco plays a “reserve” team against romania….they will try to prove themselves to get into the starting lineup…so dont expect Holland to just let Romania win. Also…they beat us in the qualifiers…its about time we got our revenge.
HUP HOLLAND!

I’m an optimist So I think van Basten will want to win that match just as well. Also because the Romanians have a pretty good defense and they’re the only team we lost to before the tournament. With teams like France and Italy there’s more space to play, and that makes us play better, so we have better chances against France or Italy. Marco said in an interview just now that he wants to play the next match seriously, because he doesn’t like not playing to win. I’m confident it’ll be a great match again tuesday.

Will Del Piero EVER do something important for Italy, EVER?

0 goals 0 assists. I don’t give one flying fuck about whether he “played well” or not. Please tell me this was the last tournament for this national disaster, it’s long overdue.

Oh yeah, of course we’re out of the tournament. I doubt I’m even going to watch the games, I’m so certain Holland is going to let themselves get beaten.

I think whatever happens Italy France will be a fantastic game on tuesday, hope they do us proud and win, but hopefully not in vain hey!

To call this tournament ‘bush league’ is harsh. It’s been entertaining with many goals scored and if UEFA has any kind of hand in this, do you think they would play it against the Italians? One of their biggest markets? Ridiculous. And would they have let both hosts go out of the tounament so early if they were really pulling the strings? Grow up, people. Yes, the offside call today did not go in your favour. It was very close and hard to call with the naked eye. Ever try running the line in an important game? No, I thought not. The penalty against Australia at WC06 is an example where Italian luck ran the other way. “Italy’s national passtime is getting jobbed by referees.” No, that’s football. You get some calls and you don’t get others. Human error will always play a factor. If you can’t deal with that, go watch the NFL.

Italy played well today and could easily have has many other goals that would not have been controversial (how was Del Piero not offside on Panucci’s goal?). A vast improvement over the Netherlands game. The Netherlands will not throw the game against Romania, it’s ridiculous to even suggest it. They may settle for a draw if it’s close, but no way will they allow a loss.

The rest of the tournament sits squarely where it has the entire time, in the Italian team’s hands. There are no outside factors at play except luck and that goes both ways.

or maybe…just maybe..buffon’s save is gonna prove it did save and not just postpone…maybe i should go to zurich

Wendall, please just watch the italian goal again, where did you find offside there? )

No hint of an offside with Panucci’s goal.

No hint of Panucci’s goal being offside.

Maybe ADP was off, hard to tell really, but even if he was he wasn’t involved in the play, so it’s inconsequential. Thanks for the life lesson Wendall, I for one feel a lot better now.

How is ADP not involved if the ball passes just over his head inside the 6 yard box and he makes a move towards the ball?

You’re welcome, Victor. I’m here to help

lol nice of u guys trying to not be one sided but ever heard of
“love is blind ” ? honestly at the mo. i don’t give a f… how they play or how they score i just WANT THEM TO GET THROUGH !!!!

u guys know espn suspended andy gray from commentating for those couple games because he let it slip that they were in bristol commentating on the match and not actually at the tourny?

those cheap bastards @ espn

Check this out:

In Euro 04, we all watched Italy go out after collecting 5 points when sweden and denmark conspired to a 2-2 draw.

This time around, Italy can make it through with just 2 points if Holland beats Romania by any score and Italy draws with France 1-1 or higher!!

Really? He comes on at postgame recaps, hard to see how anybody would think he WASN’T at Bristol. Still, cheap bastards is right.

Also, I’m betting Rob Stone gets in some trouble. He made some semi-off-color remarks that didn’t really get laughs from the other anchors. Something about the Dutch drinking all the beer in Bern and something else that I seem to recall was a bit worse. Nothing terrible, but made me raise an eyebrow at normally straight-laced ESPN.

Italy completely robbed once again.. I cant beleive how many major tourneys we get screwed out of..
Nistletwats goal was well off, tonis goal was well on, never a penalty by panucci, oh yeah and the group of death.. more like the german highway to the final.. If this isnt a conspiracy then 911 wasnt pulled by the U.S. Government.. Yes bears shit in the woods..

Wendal,, shut your pie hole..
youre obviously way out of your scope..
spanner

WAAAAA WAAAAA

What a bunch of babies!!!!!!

wendy, how about you take that patronising stench you came in here with and fuck right off out of here?

let me guess, you’re going to come back with the old, “i’m just looking to have a serious conversation…blah, blah…” bullshit. if so, kindly accept my pre-emptive fuck right off.

Why do people who don’t know the rules continuously argue?

Even if ADP was offside, its irrelevant. Referees are instructed to let the play go on just so they can determine whether the player who is offside is involved in the play. Consequently, even if ADP was offside, it would be irrelevant because Chiellini and Pannucci were the two players involved in that play.

Luca Toni was at least 2 feet ONSIDE when the ball left Pirlo’s foot.

This is just like the people who were arguing that Ruud’s goal was ONSIDE. Onside based on what? Even FIFA wants to clarify the interpretation of the rule so its not all clear cut. Yet some people who watch football only when theres a big tournament start making there own judgments. The offside rule states that if the players steps out of bounds voluntarily and is deemed to be active then he plays the opposing player onside, if he involuntarily goes out of bounds and is inactive then the second last defender is considered when determining the offside line. In this case they considered Panucci to be active because there was only a few seconds between him falling out of bounds and the goal. According to the refs there was no way to determine whether Panucci had involuntarily stepped out.

In the Toni case I think the ref was blind. He was standing right infront of him when we was onside.

“Check this out:
This time around, Italy can make it through with just 2 points if Holland beats Romania by any score and Italy draws with France 1-1 or higher!!”

Neo i cant understand how this is true. Romania losing 1-0 will only put them minus 1 on goal differential. we are minus 3. On top of that how do the french not come out of it???

Gattuso – 30
Amrosini – 31
Toni – 30
ADP -33
Camronesi – 31
Perotta – 30

World’s OLDEST midfield….

How Cassano did not start I’ll never know…

Ditch ALL the old guys who can only run for 60 minutes and start with a Fresh team – majority UNDER 30! (like every other team in the world)

If they scrape through like they always do, Spain will run circles around italy as Dona-what will go with ‘éxperience’over youth coz thats how you win matches….bring on 2010.

Ah man, John Silver you took the words right out of my mouth. Never felt Del Piero was all that. He doesn’t come through. He’s a great player with Juventus but internationally?

I agree with Michel Olivier. Can someone tell Italy to use a ground game instead of an aerial one? After 70 minutes you should know IT’S NOT WORKING. Shift a little. They had neat ground players on the field yet they kept looking for Toni’s head.

And to all these jerkoffs who keep saying Italy are cry babies: Look at the damn call and tell us it MAKES ANY SENSE and that the grievance is justified?

Morons.

Mido good point. As I mentioned FIFA is going to study because they know Italy was jobbed. It’s amazing how everyone came to the defense of the call. The people defending it didn’t even know it existed. So lame.

My friend in Holland was telling me all these refs on TV were saying it was “good.” No kidding they would. Unfortunately, he wasn’t interested in discussing it.

BUT, Holland kicked ass my friends.

As for Italy making it through: SIMPLE BEAT FRANCE.

2 bad, italy is out of the game..
game over

no EURO2008 for the world champion,
but the dutch can use some extra oranje fans

Paolo- before group goal differential comes into play, goal differential between the tied teams does. So Italy, France, and Romania would all be even at 2 points, but if Italy and France tie 1-1, Italy will have scored 2 goals in the two head to heads, and thanks to France-Romania being 0-0, both of those squads will have only scored 1 goal in the head to heads.

I’m hoping the Oranje wins against Romania, but Daniel, if the Azzurri is out, I cheer for no one.

$20 bucks that Netherlands will lose to Romania.. any takers?

Italy going through with 2 points is a disgrace.. haha

No way I’m ever thinking of support Holland..

Sorry, but I despise them..

I’ll cheer for Spain if Italy is out..

P.S. Sjneider (or however you spell his name) is officially in my top 5 players I hate list..

Sneijder is quality.. one wonders how Real Madrid can play so poorly but the Netherlands so well.. Real Madrid should forget about Ronaldo and go for van der Vaart.

He’s incredible.. His 2 goals were pure class.. But I just hate him..

good riddance.

Bashar, probably cause Robben and Sneijder are always injured.

My hastily composed player ratings today-

Buffon 9.5- Great saves, and saved a penalty. As a Juventino, that’s huge. He never saves PKs.
Zambrotta 5- Not a good performance and terrible header.
Panucci- 5.5/6- Scored the goal, but caused a penalty and nearly an own goal.
Chiellini 6.5/7- Maintained the aerial superiority in defense and made some good challenges. Why did he not start before Marco??
Grosso- 8- How he didnt start on Monday either, also questions Donadoni’s training evaluations.

De Rossi 6.5- Pretty good, much better than Ambro or Gattuso. Nothing like the Jesus Christ Romanistas promise, but well club=/=national team form.
Pirlo- 5.5- Wtf is happening to him?? He’s not even that old.
Perrotta 6- An underappreciated midfielder.
Camoranesi 7.0- Got tired eventually but had some good plays up front.

Del Piero 5.5- Not bad, but not great either. Better than Di Natale the other day but I was hoping for more.
Toni- 5- Sure, their keeper was amazing. But he’s still squandering chances left-and-right. No killer instinct, it seems, even if he got a goal.

Quags- Did he touch the ball?
Cassano- MUST START.
Ambrosini- What a waste of a sub.

if that’s why real madrid are so poor, they’re worse than i thought!

sorry. barca fan.

Squiggy says:

“As for Italy making it through: SIMPLE BEAT FRANCE.”

Basically, in the shape that both these teams are in, it’s like watching two old guys beat the shit out of each other for a lottery ticket.

I used to joke that in a just world, religious fanatics like Bin Laden would be chained at the ankle to the likes of Pat Robertson and left on a desert island.

Nowadays, I just wish the same for Donadoni and Domenech.

horrible ref

Platini should spend some money on getting those poor bastards some video support, obviously they need it, plus, Michel can afford it now..

Wendall said: “The penalty against Australia at WC06 is an example where Italian luck ran the other way.”

Wendall, I think you need to read this: http://www.serieamerica.com/blog/2007/12/30/lestate-del-2006-australia/
There was no luck involved, other than Italy being lucky that Lucas Neill decided to be incredibly stupid that day.

Watch and you will see onside by a MMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLEEEEEEE
http://www.sportizo.com/

All we need is:

*Romainia to lose against Holland and we draw France and we’re through
*Romania to draw against Holland and we beat France and we’re through

I didn’t want it to come down to depending on others to qualify, its nerve-racking and stressful, but Italy are known to fight back from no where. However history may repeat itself, and such a talented team may find themselves going home too soon and Donadoni out of a job. If Don doesn’t start Cassano on tuesday then we definitely know he hasn’t learnt anything this tournament.

Hope for the best on tuesday….two teams in crap form fighting it out for possibly a ticket to the quarters. I don’t think the team should change, only Cassano should come in for Perrotta…and Aquilani should play off the bench.

Does Arabic commentary on those highlight videos annoy the living sh!t out of anybody else?

By the way, Grosso was the friggin’ man today, although he owes the defensive mids a bit of the credit, because without them, he wouldn’t have been able to take so many runs up.

Seriously, this Aussie thing has to stop. Lucas Neil was the fool. Soccer defense tactics 101 – don’t come running full charge at an angle in the box. Besides, didn’t they play one man up for over an hour after the ref sent harshly Materazzi off? Oh yeah, they conveniently overlook that.

Just like how French fans overlook how vicious their own players can be with tackles or dives while they complained for two years about Italian soccer.

These people who keep harping about this REALLY NEED TO let it go. Soccer history is filled with controversy. Get in line Australia. This is old and lame now.

Weren’t Germany on drugs in 1954? No one remembers that though.

By the way, am I the only one who thinks Hiddink is plain impractical? Him and his attractive soccer. It was insane that he would have Russia play open run and gun with Spain. To show what? He should have been smarter than that.

I think Donadoni’s 4-3-3 is stupid, too.
http://juventus.theoffside.com/coaches/a-letter-to-donadoni-how-to-fix-italys-problem.html

Vin, I know exactly where Chris is getting the arabic vids. He’s not choosing it for the hell of it, there’s an uploader on this site caps videos instantly, he’s terrific. They are probably the only copies of those videos that are online during the game itself, and are unfortunately in Arabic. So Chris is picking them to bring you the vids as fast as possible.

Hey Alessio, I wasn’t talking about Chris’ vids, although I know that those are sometimes the only ones available, especially as the match is taking place. I’d rather Arabic vids than no vids, that’s for sure. I just turn the volume down. Arabic doesn’t bother me IRL… but those announcers just annoy me. I’m not sure why.

Moka, don’t be so sure of Netherlands losing, a draw might be possible, but if we lose now, it’ll dampen the whole atmosphere. We need to win. I see either Italy or France going through.

I certainly hope you do (for Italy’s sake only).. Go make a petition for Van Basten to win..

Romania will win UEFA refs have made up their mind that Italy will not go through. You watch all the calls go the way of Romania, they will win, Itlay will play like Roma did in the last round of Serie A they will score first find out that Romania scored get deflated and concede and that is that.

But if everything is just in this world then Itlay will get one call in their favour and make it through!!

I kinda’ agree that it was a horrible ref. But in some ocassions it got bot ways. There were some killer tackings that italians got away without seeing yellow. Toni’s goal, clearly onside. The PK was also clear.
The luck-unfortune balance switched both sides many times during the game, be it suported by refeering or by some genial plays (or saves for the both GK’s).
France and Italy got problems. They didn’t took to serious the Romanians, even if they knew this is not a so easy team; now they’ll have to play a survival game as big as a final.
As for the Neederlands, they won’t concede anything to Romania. They are a to honest people to do low blows. They’ll play at the full capacity.
Hope they will take Romania seriously, because othewise we’ll win (we did it not far ago).
By the way I’m Romanian

Italy needs to stop the whole “everybody is out there to get us” attitude. Italy is a great footballnation, but this attitude just makes you look stupid.

Too bad Romania and Italy can’t go through together. Hai Romania!

Oh come on Michael f. italy IS an overrated team.yes it fluked the world cup title in 06 with lots favourable decisions due to bad refereeing (vid: matches agst america/australia/germany/france) fouls were given or not given/ offsides conceded or not to their favour, goals disallowed or alllowed also in their favour. Italy NAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH – most boring football ever. italy shouldnt have made through to the quarter finals let alone the semi and the final. it shouldnt make it now.

Michael F- thats EXACTLY what is gonna happen.

Indeed Franco even if you do get thru so far either Italy or France have been playing the games that would suggest they get any further than a first round in the knock outs – sorry but its time for new blood in Italy and in France with some modern football tactics as well. Plus I very much doubt v. Basten will give Romania a bye – as he has said on the Dutch TV interviews he is busy with Team spirit which you dont build by dropping the ball -(even though he did hint he would rest players, I think rightly so they have deserved that) so we just have to see who has the better game on the day.

“I was never the one for complaining or whinging, as it is not our italian way.” Are you f’in kidding me? Almost every pro-Italy comment on this post is whinging about something, whether it be the referees, UEFA conspiracies, the coach, the players, whatever. It baffles me how anyone can think it is a UEFA conspiracy to oust Italy from the tourney. What would be the point? Who benefits? The article that Franco Rossi posted as proof is ridiculous. Any coach who does not need to win a game is going to rest important players with yellow card or injury concerns. He’s not going to actively try to lose a game. You want to keep the winning habit in the squad. Would you all be complaining quite so much if Italy were good enough to be in that position? No, I thought not. I would suggest to stop your whinging but why waste my time, it will not stop and it’s quite amusing to see what reason you’ll come up with next that explains why Italy have struggled so far. I wish the team luck, I do hope they qualify. I think the tournament will be better for it.

Is known that Italy way is to buy the referee ! Greatest scandal in whole Europe some years ago was about this issue .

Buffon saved the game for Italy …
There was a lot of good shoots for Romania , but I m sure , you , italians , didn t see nothing .

italia go suck a dick uve won enough competition leave some place for new teams like romania whos gonna win the tournament so go home italy

Everyone i’m gay and i like it

A real football fan can live with loss, simply because losing is a part of the game. there’s no team that never loses. However this fan who simply loves the game can’t live with a game being ruined because of favourism and bad refereeing. They say that Italy was crying wolf regarding the refereeing in Korea/ Japan WC but those who follow up know that the south american referee never refereed a game after Italia Vs. Korea
Was italy the only team that was harmed in that world cup ,no!
Turkey , Prtugal and spain were harmed as well.

On the Euro2008 official site I wrote that it’s a shame for the Uefa to support such false decisions. the whole world looks up to the eurpean championships for excellene and for them to come and offer such lame explanations is jus shameful. of course this wasn’t published, talk about freedom of speech ” IRONIC… I KNOW”

I don’t deny that the dutch team was better, actually they were much better on so many levels. but the romanians weren’t a competition for the italians. the game was italian in most of its time. that’s when everything came clear. What are the chances of such things “human mistakes” happening in 2 games in a row to the same team? seriously have you seen anything like it? I’ve been watching and playing football ever since I can remember … this can’t be just a coincidence.

this doesn’t mean that the italian team is perfect. but we all know that in football everything adds up to lead to either victory or loss. in italy’s case trying hard and brining a good game sadly isn’t enough

I’m the real frank from new york, so beat it and stop imitating me you f’ng Spaniard

TUTA -I think if there ever was a consiparcy this was in the WC 06 in favour of the italians and not now. Every game Italy played there was one, two, three.. mistakes by the referees – all in favour of the italians and not just fouls which might be understandable. I think for FIFA and UEFA to be credible they have to rewatch all the games in WC 06. If they do, Italy would have to be stripped of its title.

James- I completely respect your opinion.
Personally, I wish it would be possible to review every and each suspected game. If Italy didn’t deserve the title I am in favour of stripping it away. But if the ppl who say holland’s 1st goal is legit and toni’s goal is an offside are the same people who will decide this I refuse their decision in advance. I am not biased, however, they have proved over and over again that they’re not upto the responsibilies and they don’t deserve the trust -us fans- gave them.

James,

Then you’d be stripping many titles in many sports if you do that. Start with 1954 World Cup. What about 2002? Every sport has issues.

ITALY WON FAIR AND SQUARE.

What a silly comment.

forget history whats done is done think about the upcomming matches! though i would love to see that fool linesman not participating in any international or regional tournaments ever again! his mistake(s) are really not professional! in such big events professional referees should be brought to make the game more pleasurable to watch and fair! as for people saying Italy didn’t deserve the 2006 WC title, go and learn about football watch lots of matches and learn HOW a team deserves to win or doesnt deserve to win!

oh yeah the old conspiracy of 2006, so james you do support conspiracy theories [if it involves Italy] Let me guess the mafia paid the refs to call the penalty against Australia right and the ukranian keeper was paid to let in three goals. The Germans were probably drugged so Italy could score in the 120th minute. Wow, that was the most spectacular fix in the history of sports. How much do you think it costs to fix seven games of a World cup? More than Italy could afford I would think. People like James and the Italian conspiracy theorists really ruin this whole experience for everybody. STOP BEING A BUNCH OF F**KING RETARDS. Italy and France are in a must win. If Italy hope to avoid controversy in the future I suggest going out and getting some of the best strikers in the world like the other teams are doing and score a shit load of goals, that will shut these retards up for once. Let’s go Lippi.

You want to shut the Italians up than tell UEFA to admit that an error was made and that would be it. They come in droves to support the VnR goal, which is fine, but than you don’t show the same courtesy to Italy, even after the ref admits he made a mistake. You know Sepp Blatter went on the record as saying Australia should have been in the quarter finals not Italy [which is unprecedented] even though without the penalty it would have been 0-0, pretty presumptuous statement there. If Australia had been given the penalty no one would say shit, it would be buried into football folklore like so many other dubious decisions. Why didn’t he also point to the fact that Australia was given an unfair advantage for the second half. Though Sepp later retracted his claims, I believe this was politically motivated. Respect is a two way street people. If FIFA and UEFA showed the same consideration for Italy that they did for Australia and the Dutch than there would be no problem. All UEFA had to say was yes, the ref made an error, the Italy goal should have counted but these things happen. Right is Right, I don’t care what anybody says. Nobody supported Italy after their claims in Korea, even after the same shit happened to Spain. Moreno was convicted of match fixing in his own country for God’s sake. I am hoping for something controversial to befall the Germans or the Dutch, than we may see some action.

So , how was the MUTU’s goal ? C mon , italian fans , how was it ? We all know Italy is a great team , but you must admit : sometimes there are better teams on the field …

So , how was the MUTU’s goal ? C mon , italian fans , how was it ? We all know Italy is a great team , but you must admit : sometimes there are better teams on the field …

Yea Alex, Mutu’s penalty was *great*. If he is so great how come he could not get past Buffon to score a simple penalty?
By the way, when was the last time Romania won the world cup?

Uefa, conspiracies, etc are not to blame this time around. Sure they got shafted on a couple calls, but fellow Azzuristi please. 2002, 2000, 2004, 1998, Italy did get owned by the officials. But in 2008, they have done it to themselves. The team is slow, uncreative, weak, tired, overweight. Against romania, it was the same service, the same crosses, the same uncreative, unconvincing service to Luca Toni, who seems tired, slow and uncomfortable.

The best players on this team IE ANTONIO CASSANO cannot CANNOT come off the bench. Heck this guy should be Capitano of this team. He is the only player who is unselfish, and puts his heart into the team.

I am at a loss of words when it comes to the decisions Donadoni has made. He has fumbled it badly. I would however expect nothing less from any coach who has little to no coaching experience in the domestic league let alone the international realm.

Yes we have had two poor calls against. But lets be realists, Why was Panucci on the ground against the Neatherlands? Cause Buffon tapped him? The international game seems to have taken a turn for the better when you see players not really resorting to the dives, but rather to trying to score goals and create fancy plays.

I am shocked by the fact that the sort of game we played at the world cup, counter attack extra-ordinar has not been replicated here. The service and speed has been horrible. I could even clearly argue that right now, at this point in time we have the capacity and ability to Dominate international football for the next 15 years. With the young talent we have, the players we have waiting for a shot, this team could be simply amazing. But instead of nurishing our young talent and preparing them for a 2010 World Cup, we have simply walked backwords, picked old players with little left in the tank, and has infused little to no originality or creativity.

Hopefully we can see Lippi back where he belongs in a timely manner. This Donadoni has been a dud since day one, hopefully he gets picked up and properly trained to coach and goes through the proper channels, I would like to see him again later on. But right now, he is too inexperienced to be coaching at the pinnacle of levels with the pinnacle of teams.

dear friends, omania was totally outplayed and it was all obvious to see the gulf in the class, Romania scored a goal gifted by Zambrotta, Italia if were to go ahead with that very valid Luca Toni goal which was negetaed suspiciously by the referee would not have planted 8 players forward every time in the second half, Romania had to come forward trailing and the way De Rossi, Toni, Del Piero and Camoronesi were playing, it was just a matter of time the anti football playing pathetic Romanians would have been buried …

Marco is quoted for truth.

Keep the UEFA thing in perspective.

wuss good
yall wanna hear a joke…Italy goin on 2 da quarterfinals!!!!!

cuz they blow…literally.

I cant wait for the sweden-denmark game,oh wait i mean holland-romamia.

david blaine, i pity u for being clasless but then u r an american..u r the descendent of probably a criminal or an adultress..be grateful we discovered america

Dear friends I am not saying that there is a consiparcy – i only said that if the italians are saying that there is a consiparcy agst them now they should look back to games where referees favoured them. Yes and i think it is high time that both FIFA and UEFA in this new technological age use technology to help refs reach just decisions on the spot.This will make a much fairer game.

Dear observer it wasn’t me who started the conspiracy theory. It was started by italian fans. All I wanted to say was that if there is consiparcy now, there was also one in 06.Why was Greece banned from the world cup for corruption scandals and Italy which was facing their worst corruption scandals ever not abnned too. And that’s for starters. I am not saying there was a consiparcy just that there was “favoreggiamneto” as the italians say – a “favoreggiamento” which was seen throughout all the games that italy played. I think it is high time for both UEFA and FIFA to use electronic methods besides the human ones to make the game just and fair. After all we are living in an electronic age – a sort of second referee (an electronic one) which in a split of a second would inform the actual ref about the decision to take. That way no one would say that the ref favoured a team over another.

You cocky Iti’s Just cant stand losing can you. Always looking for an excuse or coming up with the excuse that italy played better, but lost ?! or how the opposition got lucky. They take there chances. Its football, the games never fair. get used to it

honestly all this talk bout italians paying the refs n shit…..if u rlly know the whole story it was like 6-8 teams in the serie A not the national team….and for people to say that the italians should b stripped of the title, u got to be kidding me. i think the canadien said that let me guess ur a french canadien…..yea im italian but i was rooting for USA wen the 2 teams played each other….. if ur gunna start tripping titles…..wat about maradonas hand of god…..stop being cry babies